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Eligos

Drama At Mutual Combat

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Eligos

Anyone have any insight on what happened at Operation: Kickstart this last weekend?

Trying to see if there is anything in the future I can do to make it easier on EOs.

 

From Liam Miller on Facebook:

 

 

Let me make something clear threatening me with slander isn't how you get a refund 24 hours after the event, 2 months of playing airsoft doesn't make you an expert on how events are run. I was the only staff member doing registration, chronograph, briefing and admin at the event. A relaxed mini Milsim for kids and adults that had predicted good weather but rained quite hard. You left the playing area before the event was over. We called the event over at 3:31 because of lightning. "Didn't want to make a scene.." isn't a good excuse for not asking for a refund or credit while still at the event.
 
This is how refund policy gets changed its because of people who try to take advantage of someone who did all they could even making experienced players take command to get things moving during the event. If players choose to not listen to commanding players, not listen to information like what radio channel to use,what is your current objective, not to keep going the same path you keep getting killed at you are going to have a shitty experience. Why did green win? Why did they have more fun? Cause they did one very important thing.
 
Listen. 
They knew what their objective was they listened to their commander. They kept fighting even in a borderline monsoon. You claim 20 plus people agree with you when only 34 showed up to the event. I issued 3 partial refunds when they asked me at the event because of the weather. You played for 4 hours and 30 ish mins if you stayed for the entire event. Telling me you played 2 hours at first then saying 2.5 hours means you didn't really pay attention. I pulled green back 4 different times and even forced them to the other side of the field. I forced them back after complaints of spawn camping.
I'm sorry your experience wasn't the one you desired maybe you should should consider hosting your own events if you believe you could have done better.

 

 

Jacob Deweese:

 

AAR for Kickstart V: 
The opinions are my own, and mine alone. They do not stand for the group or anyone else.
 
Planning: I have attended KS events before and always had a good time. Pre reg had me worried. Low numbers on an awesome field seemed off to me. it was a good number though and made it fun.
 
Event itself: The number of players was down but they were good quality players. The weather was a huge factor as well. I will cover that later.
 
Sustains: 
Dedication. Liam Miller was out there in the pouring rain running an op by himself. That in itself is awesome. Liam, I am not talking about you when I say this but to the other staff guys, SHAME on you. Its reflects poorly on you, Liam, and the community as a whole. If you say something and commit, you do it. Props for Liam for staying dedicated.
 
Medic rules: I really like the concept. It keeps players hydrated and in the fight. It would be good to publish medic rules ahead of time. Make sure everyone takes a few extras.
 
Talking to the COs to help your game. Most of the time the CO is there to help others have fun and using that helps.
 
Improves: there was very little Liam could do about the ame with what he had. This for future events with a real staff.
 
Have more pre set or objective options. There was a lot of time waiting on missions.
 
Have set CO who will be there.
 
Take away's over all: 
Major props to Green team guys. The rain started and I dont remember seeing a green guy pass me going out. You guys rocked for hanging in there. You embraced the suck and ran with it. The use of radios was great. I am looking forward to running with you guys again.
 

 

Tan team over all lost because of attitude. The weather really tested the fair weather players. Yes the rain sucked, You knew it was going to rain. Prepare for it. Sure this is a smaller event for fun but the attitude I saw from Tan was defeat. hang in there guys, dont give up, fight back. Take the moment when you have it and push or try something new. I watched tan team lose the whole game when every time they walked passed a smiling green player and get mad. It wasnt that green was better,We just didnt stop over some rain. ask those who set in the cars and those who stayed out who had more fun. After the rain started Tan gave up. Not saying you have to be a super hard ass but how you play and when you leave effects the whole game for everyone else to. Please push and fight next time. We abandoned areas so you guys coudl move and attack and it was never used. Over all, tan lost this event themselves.
Edited by Eligos

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Sturm

(My opinions only)

I heard a few people got upset after four hours of play and wanted a refund because of the rain and/or "balancing"

Like please, your tactics or equipment are the reason you are losing, likely.

 

It was especially brutal because people were sitting in the rain when wounded, and walking back a fair distance to the respawn, only to turn around and repeat the cycle.

 

My first game was in a downpour. I was fairly soaked, my feet were moist, and it was cold AF; but I had a darn good time. We rallied and tried to move as a team instead of a constant trickle.

 

You also can't get mad when they call a game after thunderstorms. That's fairly commonplace in sports because it poses such a big risk to health and safety.

 

I also heard the EO did what he could to help the losing team out, but there's only so much you can do.

I wasn't there, but some games I've been to will use arm bands to balance people at green/tan games if the balance is that bad.

 

Also, generic honor code hitcalling issues.

Personally, this is why I'm not a fan of large, semi-open groups. You advertise people to come out to these things and you have no idea about their character.

Having good, attentive volunteer refs can make all the difference, I just wish they weren't needed. If my time allowed, I'd absolutely put in my time as a ref.

 

  • Specify that the event can be suspended or canceled do to unforeseen circumstances
  • If you have a large pool of people, make sure they know what to bring, even though you shouldn't have to

That's about all I can think of. Maybe rallying the teams as EO? Integrity checking?

Edited by Sturm

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Junker

To be clear, it was advertised that rain would not stop the event, only lightning/thunder. All but about 3 tan players sat in their cars while it was just raining, and many left before the event was called, which was only about 90 minutes before it was scheduled to end. Liam was by himself and did the best he could. I wouldn't have issued any refunds since it was clear the game would continue as long as there was no lightning.

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Eligos

Just my opinion, but what was weird about it was:

  1. Green team had a lot of new players.
  2. Tan team had their usual team of 5-7 regular Spec-ops players.
  3. Tan team had a SAW weapon and took the town with no problem.
  4. The one tan player I saw before I left (early) was not calling his hits. He had enough time to get lit up, flinch, turn around and shoot at me (all while being hit) before his teammate took me out.

It seems like all of the stars aligned to make this a weird day.

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Crimson

I was not there so I cant say whey there was butthurt but I can relate so here is a little airsoft game story for you all.      There once was  a game I won't name.  (Imperial Might)   Yes im also a lier I named it.     Well about this game.  It was billed as supper serious Milsim.   Hosted by a large shop who put their name and a lot of money into making it happen.  Anyone so the guy running the game.. Whom I will not name because well they are my friend and life happens.  Well, let's just say.. Girlfriend problems, Dropped the Ball,  Nothing happened as it should.   Heat Rain,  Lack of planning lack of everything really.   Spent the weekend there.   Had fun with friend game was miserable.   Now the fun part of this story.  After Said game I drove the 2 hours home to find my Home empty,  My children gone,  My Bank account drained and Divorce Papers laying out as the only thing left to my name.     To this day that game was still the worse part of that weekend.   I didn't ask for a Refund.    Moral of this story.  Shit happens.  People put a lot of work into hosting games.  and Honestly usually charge very little.   If you cant find a way to make the worse of a game fun for you and your friends..  Airsoft probably isn't for you.   Embrace the suck our sport is a murder simulator. 

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Endgame

Crimson...

 

Bruh...

 

That's fucked, man.

 

But I agree.  Embrace the suck.  It is what it is.  Airsoft is truly what you make of it.  I don't take it seriously, and if I do, I best be making some money off of it.

 

Now, I'm not a huge fan of Liam (I have my reasons) but asking for a refund for some shit that cannot be controlled unless your name is *insert your choice of deity here* is bullshit. 

Asking for a refund because you got ran through like a hooker on a seaman's shore leave on payday is bullshit.

 

I don't say this often, if ever really, but if that's how people want to play it, my simple retort is this:

 

GIT GUD

 

Buy a Plan B for your heart because I just fucked somebody's feelings....raw dog style.

Edited by Endgame

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Red 2

Somesuch, and embracing the suck.

 

GIT GUD

 

Kicking all the puppies.

 

Oh, how I've missed you...

 

Crappenstance is one of my favorite things I personally invented (I may have, I don't really know.) that sums up the whole issue.

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Endgame

Oh, how I've missed you...

 

Crappenstance is one of my favorite things I personally invented (I may have, I don't really know.) that sums up the whole issue.

LOL...this is one of my more profanity-laced posts, but the feeling still stands.

 

Let me add an example to "Crappenstance"  :D :

 

A few years ago, I was at Operation Irene...I think it was 11 or 12 or even 43...I don't know....anyhow, playing as I do on the "green" side, the ENTIRE team for the ENTIRE weekend...

WHOOPED. DAT. ASS. 

I mean, it was a complete route of the tan team.  They couldn't hold a single front and couldn't kill more than a handful of us before the Wrath of God was brought down upon them.

It was like a horde of angry Jamaicans with machetes riding fire-breathing gila monsters....it was bad.

 

Anyway, to make a long story much shorter, didn't nobody ask for a refund.  Some people probably left butthurt because their HPA-powered tryhard machine didn't out-do the combined might of a bunch of hard-charging heretic slayers.......but no...no refunds.  What makes this any different?

Edited by Endgame

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Papabees

Take this for what it's worth. I went to the indoor field in Martinsville that day because I didn't want to play in the rain. At about 4ish a whole slew of tan players showed up and their chief complaint seemed to be that they felt green wasn't calling their hits.

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Endgame

Take this for what it's worth. I went to the indoor field in Martinsville that day because I didn't want to play in the rain. At about 4ish a whole slew of tan players showed up and their chief complaint seemed to be that they felt green wasn't calling their hits.

I have to say, and using your words on this: Take this for what it's worth....if you can't land a hit in an indoor field "OR" you're not calling your hits in an indoor field....you are living life wrong...

 

It is what it is.

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Papabees

I have to say, and using your words on this: Take this for what it's worth....if you can't land a hit in an indoor field "OR" you're not calling your hits in an indoor field....you are living life wrong...

 

It is what it is.

I think I explained poorly. They were complaining about the earlier game at Mutual Combat not the indoor game.

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Endgame

I think I explained poorly. They were complaining about the earlier game at Mutual Combat not the indoor game.

Ah, ok.  I'm picking up what you're putting down.  Makes sense.

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Joker

Event hosts can't control the weather. Nor can they control the number of people attending or behavior of said players in attendance. I know these things all too well. Good event hosts how ever can adapt. They can keep the players they do have motivated and they should keep things as fair and balanced as they can. But even so, sometimes (ok a lot of times) a good old fashioned ass whooping occurs. You just have to learn to deal with it. Your as a player have to adapt and learn from it. You as a player also have to help make sure players are not "cheating" even if they are doing so accidentally. EOs can't be everywhere at all times, even if they have several staff members.

 

To me it sounds like a combination of several factors. Some factors the EO couldn't control and maybe some he could have. Not every event can be 5 stars, or two thumbs up, or however you want to rate it. But as I've always said you get out of an event what you put into it.

 

Don't get me started on Imperial Might hahaha.

 

~Joker

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-Rogue-

By happenstance I dropped by this evening to see how AI was doing (visiting family here in Indy this weekend).

 

I gone done and screwed up that Imperial Might event and can only thank all who cut me slack from a major learning and life moment.

 

Point is that in this community of honor I was allowed to screw up, be forgiven, learn, and excel later.

  • Upvote 1

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RabidGerbil

Imperial Might was just bad, heat and other factors. Yeah Rogue you sucked but we still love ya. ;) 

 

I still had fun but DOR'd due to heat exhaustion. 

 

High light for Imperial Might was Crimson pretty much single handedly wiping out our whole platoon!! LOL 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how one team is always a "cheater" because they are kicking the snot out of the other side. Random cheating or no hit calling will always be, but is not the norm especially here in Indiana. 

 

Some events are gonna rock and some events are gonna flop. But......But, did you get to shoot your buddies? Run with your buddies? Get away from your Xbox and actually get some exercise? 

 

I did not attend Kickstart, too many other things got in the way. But I have played there in the rain and mud. I had a blast except for the fogging of my goggles. 

Rain adds just a little more realism to an event. If your not man enough to nut up buttercup, stay home. 

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Crimson

By happenstance I dropped by this evening to see how AI was doing (visiting family here in Indy this weekend).

 

I gone done and screwed up that Imperial Might event and can only thank all who cut me slack from a major learning and life moment.

 

Point is that in this community of honor I was allowed to screw up, be forgiven, learn, and excel later.

That right there is what its all about...    Sometimes a game suck.. But we are all friends and stay that way..  We say come on do better next time.. Ill help.     Thats what this community used to be about and I hope we get back to some day.    Becasue even the aweful game where great becasue everyone was friends.  

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Nox

Building off of what Rogue said, one of the games 3G hosted went horribly in terms of hit calling, shooting under MEDs, knowing boundaries, etc, yet 99% of the players we talked to still said they were having a great time cause they knew we were still trying to figure out event hosting. We really do have a pretty great community in terms of cutting the EO some slack for an event

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AceReaper

#shouldernipple

 

In all reality, it was a good game. Minor issues. One hell of a hit. Flared tempers. But overall that was a good game.

Edited by AceReaper

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hrturner

By happenstance I dropped by this evening to see how AI was doing (visiting family here in Indy this weekend).

 

I gone done and screwed up that Imperial Might event and can only thank all who cut me slack from a major learning and life moment.

 

Point is that in this community of honor I was allowed to screw up, be forgiven, learn, and excel later.

 

Holy blast from the past!!! No game (plan) ever goes as intended.Those who have hosted know this ALL too well.

 

Anyways, isn't airsoft about the beer and wings afterwards anyways?? :lol:

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