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gbb pistols decission


Snakeoctavia

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I am currently looking at buying my first gbb pistol, and would appreciate any input you guys could give me on what to get, and why. The review area is empty, but a few guns I'm looking at are the KWA KZ75, the KWA M93R, the kwa mp7a1, the kwa kmp9r, the KWA M1911 MKIV PTP, or the KWA M9 TACTICAL PTP. If you would like to tell me any goods or bads on these, or other pistols, your input will be gladly accepted.

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I am a total CZ75 fan boy but if I were you I would look for a TM 1911 or basically anything TM. I love mine and will swear by it.

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I can tell you right now that the KZ75 is one amazing pistol, the trigger is pretty much match grade, you can't even feel it engage the hammer at all and its VERY smooth, just like cutting butter but more fun, lol. Mag capacity is standard at 22rds so nothing amazing there, although the mag goes in much easier than any other gun I own. The recoil is very nice and stable, all the way around it's a fun gun.

 

The KWA Mp7 is a great field gun, IMO, because it can easily match most stock AEGs with range and power at 400FPS (Mine is shooting 416FPS very consistently). However that is the guns downfall also as I personally think it could shine more in a CQB environment but since it shoots so high you can't technically use it in CQB without buying and installing an NPAS on it which means more money to spend. Mags have worked great for me so far but I've only used the 50rd mags. The fit and feel is great and even using it as a sidearm still brings a smile to my face.

 

I personally have more KWA guns than I do any other company out there for GBB handguns, that being said.....I still agree with Snake, TM makes some of the best guns out there that are stock, sadly though if you do anything to them you will most likely break the "magic" that TM instills into their guns. I've heard of TM guns taking propane with no issues but I've also heard that using propane will break them almost immediately, I have yet to confirm these statements but I'm positive that Snake wouldn't lead you wrong. I personally just went thru a gun find for a local guy and we both agreed that the TM 5.7 was the gun for him, so TM has my endorsement if that means anything.

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TM M9 TacMaster = A+

 

I'd have to disagree with you. My brother had that gun, and the slide is always locking up even when it's not empty.

I would recommend the KWA 1911. I have had it for 2 years and it has never acted up on me

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KWAs are awesome if you love paying $40 for an extra mag.

 

I have yet to have any problem with this TM pistol, and the only problem I've ever had with any TM pistol was from one that I bought secondhand and was never cleaned properly or taken care of. TM also has a huge range of aftermarket parts that it can take. Its been more gas efficient and accurate with stock everything than any KWA pistol I've ever seen/used.

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@ Eagle, with my KWA USPs I get great gas consumption even in colder weather, but you are still not being fair when you'r comparing a plastic pistol to a metal slided USP. Sure it's aluminum but that's still more weight, get an aluminum slide and then compare it, also compare the FPS because that makes a difference also. No I'm not saying FPS makes the gun better, I personally think 330FPS is the highest any pistol should need to shoot but higher FPS does change the gas consumption along with performance. I'm definitely not trying to start a huge flame war here but you should consider the differences on a gun and make a fair statement to a company.

 

P.S. I slid down a hill in mud with my KWA USP, it was caked with mud, inside and out, literally caked on there, and the gun fired flawlessly during the whole match. (Yes I cleaned it very well afterwards, still kicking myself for not putting it in my holster...) I have yet to have a KWA fail on me, and I'm fairly certain that a stock TM couldn't have taken the mud inside the gun and still worked correctly. This is just my opinion, I've never actually taken a TM and submerged it in thick mud, feel free to correct me if you have done this tho because I am interested in seeing how durable a TM really is as a stock gun.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SM_Xy_mdvg

 

 

Note the trigger is stuck- result of the water washing away the lubrication/oils and preventing trigger malfunction, which would happen with probably any GBB.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMtgvs93fU4&feature=related

 

After being buried for five days, this is the result of the TM reliability. Still shoots, but something is jamming the slide. However, it does still fire.

 

Not bad for a plastic pistol.

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Not to be a jerk or anything but I think that he proved that the TM wouldn't function after being "tortured" as the slide locked after every shot, not to mention the fact that the magazine did not have bbs in it to test to see if the bbs would actually fire out of the gun. However, that being said, I have done the water test on my KWA and it fires great, I was in a creek for about 10 mins with the gun fully submerged in my SERPA holster and I shot it right after I got out of the creek bed with water still coming out of the slide. Also duly note that my KWA was in mud, not dirt which hinders the gun more as it will get in every nook and cranny on the gun including the BBU. (btw his TM M9 would fail to fire a BB if it had BBs in it because his loading nozzle was stuck in the forward position.) (Although I do give him kudos for doing a 5 day test, but I am confused on the fact that he stated it was going to be 2 days first.)

 

All that being said, I still don't think I would trust a TM after a torture test, these videos just made my concerns a reality. Thank you for your contribution to furthering my knowledge.

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oh ya a friend of a friends second cousin told them and they told me that the crossman Springer is way better then both KWA and TM

 

I challenge you all to bury your own guns in potting soil for a week and shoot them or I can bring a nice soupy bucket of mud to dip test them in at the night game

 

 

to the original poster buy what you can afford hfc makes decent M9s go for the semi only also buy a hard shell holster the padded ones will allow the mag release to be pressed and you can lose a 25$ mag with out even knowing

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@Peli, I've already started talking to Eagle about the HFC M9, I think we are both in agreement that it's probably his best choice as a new first handgun.

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I think KJW makes great M9s as well. As everyone knows TM anything is going to be a great product. But some do not like that TM guns are plastic (cant have metal weapons in Japan). But plastic or not they can hold their own, plus there are enough metal aftermarket parts to fix that issue if you really want to. WE 1911s seem to stand up pretty well as far as durability goes. I have personally never been a fan of anything KWA and I currently own a KWA M9 (for sale BTW lol).

 

The fact of the matter is this, gas guns no matter the brand can be and are finicky. Some have problems with good brands because they do not take good care of them, others put there guns through hell and expect them to be able to take the same abuse a RS pistol could handle. And it just does not work that way. They also require more maintenance then your AEG might, there is not using it and putting it away until next time like you might get away with using AEGs. The answer to the OP's question is just a matter of opinion and what you like and dislike about certain handguns.

 

No offense to any players here but there are very few that seem to be able to use pistols effectively enough to even bother carrying them. Some of you guys have been playing a little to much COD, your not going to get lots of kills especially long range kills in the woods. I am not saying it cant be done (because I do it and have seen it done by others) but if your not going to get use of it then dont buy it. Of course CQB is a different story but ask yourself how often to you get to play CQB? Pistols are secondary weapons, meaning when your primary goes down you transition. Or you need to reload but dont have enough time so again you transition (and even then some of your transitions take way to long). And yes I know some of it is about the "fashion show" and if you have the extra money to spend then more power to you.

 

I am not trying to discourage you because pistols are a lot of fun. I find using them gives me a greater adrenaline rush at times then using AEGs because you are often outgunned making it very challenging. And with practice they can be used effectively, with more practice they can even be used as a primary especially in CQB. But maybe you (and others) would be better off spending your $150 on something else, like more mags or extra batteries, or better goggles or something? Get out to games and ask to see or use others guns im sure they would be happy to help you out.

 

~Joker out....

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http://www.airsoftfo...es-t213837.html

 

KJW M9 with 3 mags for $100.

 

I've got to agree with Joker almost 100% as most people never actually use their sidearm, and then you have people like Pastor Blaster who think handguns are useless and prefer to not carry one but get gunned down quick after his primary goes down. I personally always carry a sidearm, you won't find me without one because they are invaluable when it comes to saving my butt when it's on the line, however that doesn't mean everyone will follow suit. Handguns are only as effective as the operator allows them to be, if the operator doesn't practice with the gun then there is absolutely no way a handgun will work the way you want it to. After owning pretty much 1 handgun from every MFG (some more than one tho...) I can still adequately say that even though they all look the same there is still a big difference on performance between each model. Each gun has its pros and cons, that being said they are normally all the same weight or very close, TM even as a plastic gun still replicates the real weight pretty well, so learning to transition/carry a model is fluent from one company to another as long as you stay with the same handgun model. M9s are a classic along with 1911s and hicapas, parts for TM compatible versions are very abundant for all of those actually. I still let it boil down to one decision on a handgun when I'm choosing, do I want a gun that I can just use straight out of the box and not have to think about getting after market parts for? Or do I want a gun that I can modify to get a different look or try something new? The former would be a KWA for the most part as KWA is great out of the box IMO, and the latter is a TM, yes TMs can perform great out of a box but common, with all of the metal upgrades and unique parts out there who can deny the fact that it isn't something to try? I'm personally building a TM hicapa 4.3 from the ground up right now and I love the options that I can get. KWA on the other hand has limited to no upgrades for their guns, could be a pro or con, probably a pro for me as I don't have to think about buying more stuff for that gun. I'm not gun biased tho, I like I said, I have a ton of handguns, if you don't believe it please PM me and I'll put my guns on my counter take a pic and let you decide on how many I have. However TM and KWA have both been a company that I can always depend on, but for a starter gun I would go with a HFC M9 or a KJW M9, hence the link up above^^. as many members on this forum actually use HFC/KJW M9s a lot, I personally have 3 HFCs and 2 KJWs, but that's me, and parts for the guns are so easily accessible that it's nearly impossible for you to break the gun beyond repair.

 

Also, when picking out a sidearm you need to think about how you are going to carry it, crossdraw vest? Drop leg holster? Belt holster? There are quite a few holster options out there and picking the right one for your sidearm is just as crucial as picking the right handgun for you as some holsters actually drop the mags to your gun or drop you gun all together.

 

P.S. Pistol people are like :ph34r: !!

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http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/FS-Multiple-AEGs-GBBs-t213305.html

 

Few good starter guns there for under $100, need a lil work but still a great starter package none the less.

 

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/WTS-Tokyo-Marui-Glock-18-t213659.html

 

Marui G18 with mags and a holster, great starter setup if you want to pay more for it.

 

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/9013/cat/3

 

MP9R, great deal on it since the gun is $215, you're getting the gun and an extra mag for $215

 

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/9056/cat/3

 

Great looking KJW 1911 with minimal wear.

 

Just some random stuff I found.

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Look at this post; <---

 

If you buy a KWA or a TM you will be fine.

 

TMs can't take torture... Shade, the F-----G GUN WAS BURIED FOR FIVE DAYS. Looked like it might have been around a garden, lets take in to factor acid base content of soil thats been treated with fertilizers, hi acid plants decaying into them, proximity to salt water, shit like that. The fact it FUNCTIONED, is a testament to design and material. Airsoft guns would not be burried for five days, or abused for five days straight of constant play. The only, and I mean ONLY time that would happen, is Eastwind, and I am hoping the caliber of players that would be attending said game would have the common sense to keep their weapons cleaned during the down time which is about 95% of the seven days.

 

This is like saying 'Well I wouldn't buy a Ford because after it was hit with a dump truck, it wouldn't do zero to sixty in three anymore. Really the fact that the passengers survived is moot... it won't speed up.'

 

Used to, I would deconstruct dumb posts line by line to make a point to people that had made a stupid post, but instead I will say this;

 

Some of the crap you have said and presented is so profoundly retarded that children for ten generations within a mile of your house will be born with severe disabilities. Maybe ten miles.

 

I am not trying to be a dick dude but you arm chair quarter back a lot of shit. Yeah you've posted pictures of your thirty guns and stuff that doesn't impress me. You seem to be providing a lot of material based on subjective opinion and not objective material. Have you played an 8-12 hour event in a hostile woodland environment and put this crap to the test?

 

How the hell do you expect seasoned airsofters to take you seriously when you put TMs and such down, and then champion clear plastic guns from walmart? I mean, seriously? Are you a troll, are you coming here looking for fights, or are you just that ignorant of the natured of these seasoned brands?

 

Then you go off and provide information like this to new airsofters fresh to the sport? You wonder why people jump on your shit like this?

 

TM has been around almost as long as you have been alive, and airsofters that were driving and playing airsoft when I was still watching dragon ball z and listening to linkin park in eighth grade will swear to a TM before they swear to a PTW.

 

Think about that for bit.

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Look at this post; <---

 

If you buy a KWA or a TM you will be fine.

 

TMs can't take torture... Shade, the F-----G GUN WAS BURIED FOR FIVE DAYS. Looked like it might have been around a garden, lets take in to factor acid base content of soil thats been treated with fertilizers, hi acid plants decaying into them, proximity to salt water, shit like that. The fact it FUNCTIONED, is a testament to design and material. Airsoft guns would not be burried for five days, or abused for five days straight of constant play. The only, and I mean ONLY time that would happen, is Eastwind, and I am hoping the caliber of players that would be attending said game would have the common sense to keep their weapons cleaned during the down time which is about 95% of the seven days.

 

This is like saying 'Well I wouldn't buy a Ford because after it was hit with a dump truck, it wouldn't do zero to sixty in three anymore. Really the fact that the passengers survived is moot... it won't speed up.'

 

Used to, I would deconstruct dumb posts line by line to make a point to people that had made a stupid post, but instead I will say this;

 

Some of the crap you have said and presented is so profoundly retarded that children for ten generations within a mile of your house will be born with severe disabilities. Maybe ten miles.

 

I am not trying to be a dick dude but you arm chair quarter back a lot of shit. Yeah you've posted pictures of your thirty guns and stuff that doesn't impress me. You seem to be providing a lot of material based on subjective opinion and not objective material. Have you played an 8-12 hour event in a hostile woodland environment and put this crap to the test?

 

How the hell do you expect seasoned airsofters to take you seriously when you put TMs and such down, and then champion clear plastic guns from walmart? I mean, seriously? Are you a troll, are you coming here looking for fights, or are you just that ignorant of the natured of these seasoned brands?

 

Then you go off and provide information like this to new airsofters fresh to the sport? You wonder why people jump on your shit like this?

 

TM has been around almost as long as you have been alive, and airsofters that were driving and playing airsoft when I was still watching dragon ball z and listening to linkin park in eighth grade will swear to a TM before they swear to a PTW.

 

Think about that for bit.

 

Read my post, I clearly stated what I thought of TM. I never said TM was junk, and the gun didn't function, it failed to fire correctly not to mention it had no bbs in it to test on whether or not it would actually fire the bb that was in the barrel without jamming it. I also never said that "my collection" made me head advisor on what is what, I just said I've had both and I trust KWA more, from opinion and experience both. All of this being said, ya, you are a jerk because I've actually tried helping the solution here, sure Eagle and I had a slight misunderstanding and he did PM me with a load of cussing but we figured it out and we both came to an agreement. Just because I'm younger doesn't mean I don't know things, age has nothing to do with maturity. If it makes any of you feel better I'll do the same exact tests on my KWA that this guy did on the TM, I'll make sure that there is someone there to verify all of my tests so you can't disprove any of it, and I'll even do functionality testing to prove that KWA can and will take the torture test without having issues. I'll even up the antics again and put my gun in MUD, not lousy dirt, dirt is all external, MUD will clearly get the guns internals much dirtier than dirt will.

 

P.S. I'd never buy a PTW either when I've got an Inok that's better, sry. Also, prove to me that "Seasoned" means anything, I met "Seasoned" players at BF7 and all of them were nothing but jerks and lousy people, you should have heard the BS they were talking about you dude, it was ungodly stupid and ridiculous how unprofessional "Seasoned" players acted.

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Getting ready to upload "torture tests" to youtube, I did the same exact tests the other guy did, I'm waiting right now to finish the second test, and then I have a few ideas for other tests that can be done to test reliability on the gun after all of this has been done to it. My father is going to kill me anyways for "trashing" a $150 gun, I told him it's nothing, we will just have to see how much of the gun is left after I get done destroying it.

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I know who you are talking about, and they are hardly "seasoned" :). When I say seasoned, I mean the old world players that were out there before the clones and drop in gear boxes and MOLLE II gear, the guys who had to hand tech and watched airsoft litterally go from springers to AEGs.

 

I don't want you to bury anything in mud, seriously, don't do that to your pieces. There is no practical reason to do that to something you bought with your own money and plan on skirmishing. Dirt isn't just dirt, there are a lot of chemical compounds in it that pretty much do to plastics and metals the same setting something on fire does. Something getting clots of dirt in the guts doesn't mean its just dirty, its a serious problem. That's why guns should be oiled and dry clothed after every event. I recently purchased a ptw that has damage in places I have never seen damage on real weapons that came back from the stan or used in heavy training, and it made me so nervous that when I had its ECU replaced I had it completely broken down and reassembled by Zshot trained techs to make sure it was in order. Getting your stuff dirty and beating it intentionally to prove something is bad business. It proves nothing other than an individual has the money to burn or they don't know jack about handling.

 

Tough love is still love, and I want you to know I am not trying to be a dick or specifically be mean to you, its just you make some really nonsensical remarks to players and about equipment that is pretty far out in left field. If anything I come off rough, and jump to ballistic re education too quickly. Be glad its me, and not some of the other people I've witnessed in neighboring communities.

 

I apologize for my last posts tirade, and will return the topic to its OP.

 

If you wish to further the discussion, pm me.

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Thought I'd post this up and do the follow up on it the end of this week, actually it would even behoove me to use it at my next skirmish this weekend.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kpyK4oOl4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maPYI6SgUdI

 

 

My editing software wasn't working so I had to do a round about way of uploading the videos to youtube, it's not the neatest layout but it works, sorry if it bothers any of you guys.

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Go with TM. After messing around with California's TM 4.3 (which I believe he said said was 4+ years old with olny stock parts and no breaks) I went and purchased myself one as well and am completely happy with it.

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All I know is I can vouche for HFC M9's run on propane/green gas. I purchased mine in February of 2010 and it has since had MANY more rounds through it than most people would ever put through their pistol and still shoots very well. Comparitively speaking, it outshoots a majority of the GBB pistols I've come into contact with even now that it needs hop-up rubber replaced. I am more than happy with it for having only paid $70 to get it plus 1 mag. Since I've acquired 6 additional mags for an average of about $12.50 used.

 

It hasn't been submerged in mud, but it has made plenty of kills for me, even against people using AEG's. That makes it okay in my book.

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It hasn't been submerged in mud, but it has made plenty of kills for me, even against people using AEG's. That makes it okay in my book.

 

I can attest for this GBB, I used it once at Naptown when all of my guns went down, and still managed to get six people wielding AEGs with it.

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All I know is I can vouche for HFC M9's run on propane/green gas. I purchased mine in February of 2010 and it has since had MANY more rounds through it than most people would ever put through their pistol and still shoots very well. Comparitively speaking, it outshoots a majority of the GBB pistols I've come into contact with even now that it needs hop-up rubber replaced. I am more than happy with it for having only paid $70 to get it plus 1 mag. Since I've acquired 6 additional mags for an average of about $12.50 used.

 

It hasn't been submerged in mud, but it has made plenty of kills for me, even against people using AEG's. That makes it okay in my book.

 

Eagle and I agreed that the HFC M9 was one of the best guns for the price, and because after market parts are so easy to get, the gun will quite literally never be beyond repair. That being said I'm only doing the test to show people that KWA can hold its own just like the TM did in the earlier post, I am however thinking about putting one of my HFC m9s thru this test also since I have so many. Another guy has already PMed me about putting a WA 1911 thru it also but I don't think I will do to the nature of it being a harder gun to get and parts aren't readily available if it does break. I still say his best choice would be the HFC M9 in any case as I can vouche for their performance, mine of course don't seem to perform as well as Dragon's does but they still work great just the way they are, and mags can be found almost anywhere on the internet. In any case I posted a few earlier with some other guns to keep a variety going.

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