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Limiting the capabilities of the weapon is wrong. IMO if you host a game and force a person to run their weapon at a lower FPS than the next guy, just because of performance, then you should probably stop hosting games. This is akin to controlling how a person can spend their money on items that they use and if perpetuated, the next thing we know, people will be requiring one brand of BB's on their field, or only allowing one brand of eye protection over another. 

 

As stated, the capabilities of the weapon mean little difference. I've run the exact setup that Francois is referring to at Irene 9 and was doubling the range of TFR while shooting semi-auto and I doubt there was a bolt gun there getting anywhere near the range I was, but this was an urban setting, well within visual range, and well within the capabilities of the DMR used today. 

 

When we choose to limit the use of current technology, we rob ourselves of the potential to push further than we have already. IMO, AEG manufacturers needed Polar Star so they would be forced to evolve. My AEG gets excellent range in comparison to most and the accuracy is top notch, but it doesn't compare to when I ran a P*, not even close. 

 

Polar Star is the current cutting edge and should be encouraged (with proper use), not discouraged. Limiting fps to level the playing field..... Wow. Will we next dial everyone down to 100ft of range so that Wal Mart guns are just as effective as PTW's? 

 

Now, while we're on the discussion, people have this ridiculous thought that by some unknown sorcery, Polar Stars can pump out insane Joules of energy while still at the same FPS using the same weight of bb's as an AEG and they're wrong and right at the same time. If tuned correctly, AEG's can experience an increase in kinetic energy in the same very way, by a volume of air continuing into the barrel after the BB has started its exit of the barrel. This can easily be regulated in the Polar Star by adjusting the poppet dwell down to a point where no air is wasted, thus making the system more efficient and actually more accurate. This "energy creep" is well documented and has been confirmed in AEG's as well, find the tests yourself on ASF if you don't believe me. So what does this all mean? Well it means that limiting the FPS of a Polar Star effectively limits its usefulness and part of the reason a person purchased it. I know it was the main reason I did, because my AEG's GB has now eclipsed more than 500k shots making it extremely reliable.

 

So what can we do to combat the known issues with Polar Stars being used to gain an actual unfair advantage (increasing joules/kinetic energy output)? Two things, a tournament lock which PTW's don't have and checking Poppet Dwell settings. Get a few very experienced P* users who know how to tune their gun and determine the average amount used in a particular barrel length and set that in your rules. If someone is outside of this, they either have to adjust it or don't field the weapon, it's as simple as that. Do on the spot chronos measuring in joules of the BB's they're fielding, not .20 or .25 because if I'm using a .40 then your tests don't matter. If they're outside of your maximum joule settings, then they fail the chrono. Now, if the advantage of heavier bb's rustles your jimmy at all, then let's take a look at paintball for a bit of comparison. It would take a gun running 1,000 FPS with a .2g bb to achieve 10 joules of kinetic energy and paintball guns run 14-20 joules. 

 

In conclusion, P*'s are demonized, unfairly so, due to ignorance on the part of how things work. Dishonest players will be dishonest, no matter their platform. Correct rules should be put in place and enforced for all, not just P* users and people should be allowed to use what they buy as long as those rules are followed. Period. Whether I carry water in a Camelbak or a soda bottle, as long as I'm following the rules for hydration. Whether I wear a 6" boot or a 9" boot, as long as I'm following the rule on footwear. Having one kid twist his ankle in a 6" boot doesn't justify requiring everyone to wear a 9" boot just for safety's sake. When we start regulating the specifics of everything a person uses, we seriously start to take the fun out of the individuality of the game. I don't want to wear an impression or look like someone else, I want to do my own thing while being an honorable and respectful player. When I've lost that ability, I will leave this game and never look back.

Please Dragon, tell me you were just being sarcastic in your post above! The only thing I take out of your post above is "me me me". The purpose of an organizer is to make sure every players have fun, regardless of the brands of their guns, gears or bbs. Your examples above have no relation with the P* problem at hand. Boots or goggles will not interfere with someone else pleasure but getting shot by a white line of bbs or from 400ft away will. So as I mentioned above, I can't just let everything take its course so P* can use whatever they want whenever they want, otherwise, I will end up with no other players than P* in the field. The limitations were tried (i.e. lower FPS) were tested and approved by P* users so it is not like they felt cheated. what would happen if every players would play with a minigun and shooting 400ft away?!?!

 

Don't get me wrong, I am for technology advancement but we have to wonder if an advancement is for the benefit of the community or its detriment. Private events!? hell do what ever you want and don't even use goggles for all I care. But when you get to play at the big fields with the big crowds, you have to think "we we we" way before you think "me me me". There is no such thing as "individuality" into airsoft since you play with and against players, which also want to have their own individuality. So someone has to draw the line in all that individuality and testorerone nightmare ;)

 

To conclude, don't you guys ever wonder why the fields and players turn-around is so big?!

 

P.S. I definitely can agree with you guys though, P* is a freakin beast....

Edited by strikers_blade
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Please Dragon, tell me you were just being sarcastic in your post above! The only thing I take out of your post above is "me me me". The purpose of an organizer is to make sure every players have fun, regardless of the brands of their guns, gears or bbs. Your examples above have no relation with the P* problem at hand. Boots or goggles will not interfere with someone else pleasure but getting shot by a white line of bbs or from 400ft away will. So as I mentioned above, I can't just let everything take its course so P* can use whatever they want whenever they want, otherwise, I will end up with no other players than P* in the field. The limitations were tried (i.e. lower FPS) were tested and approved by P* users so it is not like they felt cheated. what would happen if every players would play with a minigun and shooting 400ft away?!?!

 

Don't get me wrong, I am for technology advancement but we have to wonder if an advancement is for the benefit of the community or its detriment. Private events!? hell do what ever you want and don't even use goggles for all I care. But when you get to play at the big fields with the big crowds, you have to think "we we we" way before you think "me me me". There is no such thing as "individuality" into airsoft since you play with and against players, which also want to have their own individuality. So someone has to draw the line in all that individuality and testorerone nightmare ;)

 

To conclude, don't you guys ever wonder why the fields and players turn-around is so big?!

 

P.S. I definitely can agree with you guys though, P* is a freakin beast....

 

I'll respond more in depth when I have time but for now, it is about me me me. At the last BF I attended there were over 400 Me's on that field, all of which I'm sure are concerned about themselves first in a hobby that they choose to have a part of.

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Indeed Dragon indeed...which is why I am preaching for a strong community :D

I sure hope you guys can discuss about it as much as I am willing to discuss as well. If it is a one way conversation, it will end up hurting some people.

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 But when you get to play at the big fields with the big crowds, you have to think "we we we" way before you think "me me me". There is no such thing as "individuality" into airsoft since you play with and against players, which also want to have their own individuality. So someone has to draw the line in all that individuality and testorerone nightmare ;)

 

To conclude, don't you guys ever wonder why the fields and players turn-around is so big?!

 

P.S. I definitely can agree with you guys though, P* is a freakin beast....

 

I completely agree with Blade. The limitations he places on guns for standard rifleman are not only for safety concerns, but to ensure everyone has a good time attending his games (read: business). If you don't like the way he limits guns to level the playing field for large events, then don't go to his games. It's really that simple.

 

 

I'll respond more in depth when I have time but for now, it is about me me me. At the last BF I attended there were over 400 Me's on that field, all of which I'm sure are concerned about themselves first in a hobby that they choose to have a part of.

 

You paint with a really broad brush, Mike. Not only did we pay for tickets for 10 of the younger guys so they could go, we drove them all there, paid for hotel rooms, and made sure their guns were tuned/running and gear was up to snuff before even worrying about our own stuff. I played 90% of the day without a gun (PL role) because of it, and I'd do it again in a heart beat.

 

The very last thing airsoft needs is more "Me me me" players, it has gotten us to where we are now: No established Indiana fields, all the older guys getting out because they're tired of the selfish bullshit mentality amongst some here, and a community that is far less productive than it was 6 years ago.

 

If you aren't willing to humble yourself and put the community and player safety first then you do not belong here.

 

 

This thread has gotten way off track, so it's going to be locked. Save yourself the time of writing me a 6 page PM about it, I won't read it.

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I agree wholeheartedly with the comment that anyone and I do mean ANYONE can be out smarted or flat out, out played. Schu has proven this to me plenty of times.....runs a stock weapon. So as far as PolarStars having an unfair advantage is crap. I have proven this time and time again.  They are more reliable but gotta remember, fushion engine, gearbox, all they do is push air ;) Some will say the P-star is more consistant, again, I disagree.

I tinker constantly with my stuff trying to improve it from an accuracy stand point.

 

ROF I have never been a fan of from any platform, but that is just this old rodent.

 

Another thing I see that is evolving that chaps my ass is how many players bitch about camo colors. Really???? Woodland and DCU are the cheapest on the market. Get over yourself and buy the needed uniform for the game. EO's should never bend on their choice of cammo colors. If it were me you would have only 2 to choose from, tan based and green. Anything in between would be a no go.

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