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I've been around the airsoft community along time. I have met and played with the most honorable of players, and also met the most loathsome characters ever. The thing I want to talk about and hear other peoples opinions on, is evolution.

I don't mean it in the sense of, is man evolving, but more the sense of the guns, the gear, the game itself.

 

Way back when, there was only one option for guns. Gas or HPA style guns. They were great, lightning fast, hardly ever a jam, and as long as you took care of your o rings, never an issue really. Then the aegs. It was hot shit when it came on the scene. They sold it as, no more tanks, no more gas to fill, just a tiny battery can bring you hours of fun. And the big selling point was no more 50 rd proprietary mags. Now, the next evolution, is a de-evolution, but 100 times better performance. Back to HPA rigs and o rings. Polarstar.

I will be the first one to admit that I have bitched and whined about the polarstar, however, after this last game I went to I have to say that the evolution of the airsoft gun really is polarstar, or Daytona gun systems.

You see, I have observed how well the system itself performs, is user friendly, programmable, and can be a huge asset on the field. The problem rest in the hands of the end users. I can honestly say, that at a LC game of all places, I met intelligent end users who used their equipment the right way. And never once did I hear on the field of someone shooting hot, or over shooting. As matter of fact the guys with the aegs were the ones doing it more than anyone else. But enough of this. Let's talk gear.

 

Gear has evolved so much. We started with the basics, H harnesses with pistol belts and Alice clips, and I don't know if it was out of necessity to stop pain, but some brilliant guy thought of making plate carriers and flak jacket style vest. Then helmets, more and more 1:1 repro in cheaper materials, and now you can get just about anything you see on tv, or you can imagine because there is some space aged looking stuff out there now.

Side note: you can look fancy as all hell, but it doesn't mean squat when you have to do 150 yard belly crawl in 110 degree heat carrying an m249 because you had to have that squad automatic weapon that looked uber cool. You will look at the basics again thinking, I sure wish I had an H harness.

And as far as gear goes, every time we see something new that we like we are always going to plot and scheme to figure out how we can get it because it looks cool, no matter how non functional it may be. We are all gear whores, plain and simple.

 

The big topic is the evolution of the game. Now, there are people who take this hobby way to serious, and unfortunately they do ruin it for the rest of us to a degree. Just because they never got to be a SF operator, and never won their dad's approval, or mommy didn't hug them enough, they yell and scream on the field, act like total jackasses to thier other teammates, and nobody wants to play with them anymore.

But they have brought us something, that a lot of us enjoy. MilSim.

Team death match, is fun, as well as capture the flag, and sabratouer, but because of these guys want for realism, we got MilSim.

Now MilSim has varying degrees. Light MilSim is usually a TDM style with objectives, mag limits, and modes of fire rules, and for the most part that's the MilSim most of us know. There is another MilSim that not very many get to experience. The kind of play that you sign up as squad, you are told what to bring in a basic load out, you are given a topographical map of the AO,( the AO's are usually a couple of thousand acres), you dont know how many are on the other team, where the inserted, you don't even know who the host is except they are a voice on the other side of a command radio. You have objectives and such, but you may never fire a shot during the whole experience because that's not what your job description is.

You have to make camp, set patrols, basically act like a real unit, and there is no respawn. Once your done, you're done. These are other aspects of the game that nobody is really thinking about, IMO.

However, with the advancement with the gun, gear technology, and the fact a lot of vets are starting to come into the hobby now, these kind of games are starting to show up more.

 

So now I've said a little bit about the things I've seen, and thanks for reading this dribble, I would like to hear other individuals opinions or observations on or fun little hobby.

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I think you've hit the nail on the head. The hatred and disdain for Polarstars is unfair, unreasonable, and makes as much sense as blaming a tool for someone's crimes, yet it's still being perpetuated daily in the airsoft world. I will say though, that Polarstar and DG are the present in airsoft because nothing else performs  as well, with the reliability. Maybe the next step in the evolution will be back to AEG's when they decide to build things with quality and longevity in mind. 

 

It's funny, in my time I have also seen an evolution in gaming style among airsofters. There has been debate in the past about the different levels of milsim, but from what I've seen, milsim is de-evolving into something else. I've been to very few actual milsim games and a LOT of games claiming to be, but more accurately resemble speedball than milsim. EO's are making less of an attempt at raising the bar and rather shooting for more people, more teams, etc,. rather than focusing on the realism and quality of the game. I don't mean needing technicals firing .50 cal blanks in order to add realism but rather doing things that give a feel that's more true to life. While it's my preference, I find it funny how some of my favorite games have been those where I've seen the least trigger time but accomplished the most, while my least favorite I've seen the most trigger time (minus one game, Redemption 2). 

 

It's a very complex set of issues to deal with, but you know what they say about embracing change... If it doesn't evolve, it will die. It's up to all of us to set the standard or raise the bar, whichever way you look at it. 

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You have been playing a lot longer than I have, I started playing in 2003. The only GBBs were classics, TM was the only reputable AEG company, CA and ICS were just starting to release models into the US. I have never owned a GBB with a tank/remote line, always been an AEG guy. I've done some work on DGs, hope to one day get one. The main evolution I've seen in regards to AEGs has been a larger market of quality upgrade parts, and crappy quality guns (aka clones) becoming the status quo, which in turn furthers the upgrade market.

 

Players are about the same, I have met the same personality types you have. Made a lot of lifetime friends, made a few enemies. Anymore I just avoid games with loud mouths and troublemakers, it's just easier that way, they really ruin the gaming experience. Site staff deals with a lot of the fucked up individuals out of public light, we have some real winners show up here [/sarcasm]. Personally I'd rather play a game with a small group of laid back skilled players that I know are good people then a large game with a mix in of loud taggots and try-harders, no matter how good the AO is. Honestly the group of younger players we have here at AI is one of the best I've played alongside and against, very honest and humble guys.

 

Gear wise MOLLE was the new thing back then, only difference today is the wider variety of patterns and the trend towards lightweight material. Plate carrier based heavy loadouts have become a lot more popular since then, I'm still a H-Harness or light chest rig guy. Players carry a lot more water now, always a good thing. They also carry a shit-ton more mags, MidCaps at that, a bit of de-evolution as you said.

 

Old-school MilSim is still alive, you just only catch glimpses of it at games held in Springfield, OH. The deep insert games you describe are distant memories here now, I haven't seen or heard about one since ~2007. You have to find a host player who owns a large field (read: responsible adult), and has the patience to deal with all the logistics and bitching that comes along with hosting games. We used to have a few of these guys, most of them got restationed or moved onto other hobbies because they were tired of dealing with typical airsofters. I hope that one day we will see the return of these games on a semi-regular basis, but it will require a permanent field here.

 

Organizing airsofters to achieve something bigger than themselves is still a complete goat rodeo, a lot of big talkers who don't show when it's needed. We have some solid guys here, and some younger guys that I think will hang around a long time and be productive, but the overall picture is we still don't have a single established field here. Here's to hoping that changes in the near future.

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For the most part I agree with just about everything you've said, actually with EVERYTHING. Now I've been in and out of airsoft for a number of years and haven't had quite the experiences, but I've seen and heard about my fair share of good and bad.

 

For me personally, I like the fact that I can dress up like some of my favorite movie/video game characters and run around playing "real life" Battlefield. (I use "real life" loosely because I'm not enlisting, nor want to do this for real). But it does get me out of the house so I can run around and shoot other people without harm (for the most part), and enjoy myself. Along the way I've met some great guys, and some of you seriously crack my sh** up! I've learned that even though we're out there being quiet, stealthy, completing objectives and trying to be tacti-cool, for the most part you guys really know how to have fun.

 

I know there are people out there that take this WAY too seriously, and it does honestly kill the fun aspect a little.. but I've learned long ago to always just do you. Don't let others influence you in a negative manner. We're all here to have fun, right?!

 

To keep from dragging this on, recap:

 

I'm out here to run around playing army, and have a blast doing so! While all the same time meeting some new, fun, interesting, (sometimes unusual, but in a good way!), characters.

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Well, I think I might try and throw in my own brief $0.02 as what I guess would really be the most recent generation of airsofter.  I started playing back in 2008 when everything was pretty well established.  The gear for the game had fully made the switch to commercialization by then, so to speak.  I pride myself for playing airsoft on a shoestring budget, so the bread and butter I deal with are the clones and repro for myself and the players I came up with.  The one thing I've learned and stick by, is that there's a line when it comes to performance.  Once your kit is good enough to be competitive, the skill matters more than how absolutely awesome your gun is or the "real-life" tactical maneuvers you know.  Its the tag for one of the admin's around here, "leave your ego at home, it doesn't matter if you've got $2000 of real kit, if you got hit, you're hit."

 

So I guess I would classify myself as a low-level player.  I've been around milsim, I've played with the best and the worst that it has to offer, and I've decided that I'm happier with the mid-level I had gotten to before.  I'm honestly not a fantastic shot, I'm not particularly fast, either.  I've got a decent sense for timing, but the thing that I consider myself actually useful for is taking a bunch of kids running clones and hi-caps, forming them into a group and doing what I can to teach them about the game.  Every time, I'm always proud of these kids.  

 

Airsoft is not a competitive sport, it really isn't.  That's what I think is the big deal between airsoft and paintball, one is a sport, one is a hobby.  That's just the way it works.  I go into games to dress up like some deranged mashup of an operator, shoot at people with my toy gun, and play army.  Sure there are some tough parts to it, I usually think its the best way to do it.  I take the same approach with running my squads.  I've usually got a bunch of kids who can count on one hand the number of games outside their backyards they've played in.  They don't know everyone at the game like the honestly incredible community of AI does.  So when I drag up against a gear-coordinated team of try-hards, I pull my people out of that engagement.  I give my kids responsibilities, teach everything I can as I go, and do what I can to put them in fun engagements, because that's what the game's about and that's what will keep these kids coming back.

 

I see the older players who've been around for a while dropping off every so often, but I never feel like there are enough new players coming in to take their places.  The new guys who I've witnessed come into the game have been great people, but we still need to do what we can to encourage the new breed to keep coming back and show them the sort of obsessive black hole of airsoft we've all fallen into and how awesome it is in here.

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Seems to be a difference in the way things are going over here in the UK as far as "guns" go as we don't really have Polarstars and GBB's only make up a small percentage of players (probably dude to our lower fps limits and poor weather). This side of the pond we tend to steer towards PTW's if people are looking for 'top end' performance, now I've not had a chance to use a P* and it's not something I've read up on but the other advantage of the TW route is the realism it provides; weight, size, function, no tank/hose so I would of thought the P* route would be a devolution back towards paintball style equipment? But I suppose that's a discussion for another time...

 

Gear is gear and will always move in line with current military trends, I hear all the old guard saying about how great their 1970's webbing is etc etc but at the end of the day cutting edge military units use the most effective gear for getting the job done so it makes sense to use the same kit as the guys who actually know what they are doing lol. Obviously if you're not going down the milsim route and the paintball/speedball games are more your thing then yea there's some great lightweight options out there that fit the bill but don't forgot all that old kit is still available if that's what floats your boat so as far as "gear" goes the range of options is always expanding.

 

As far as games go I like to tthik I have a braod range of taste. I absolutely love doing my 24/36hr milsim games, in the arse end of no where sleeping in a muddy puddle in my RRV with a bergan bigger than me or conducting night raids in a FIBUA village, all kitted out in our latest Devgru kit. But equally I enjoy running around a CQB game like a tit with a PACA/Slick and 2x60rd mags! There are sites close to me that offer real hose fests and that's not my cup of tea so I dont go there, It really is a case of different strokes for different folks and as long as a game has balanced gameplay, is advertised for what it actually is and the players enjoy it I really don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way.

 

 

Although I can see what the OP was getting at I think unfortunately you'll always end up with:

 

The Milsim guys calling skirmishers a bunch of hi cap gimps with crap chinese gear.

 

The Skirmish guys calling the milsimers a bunch of try hard wannabes with too much money.

 

And then there will be the new guys in the middle looking perplexed whilst we stand at the side shaking out heads and trying not to be associated with either group...

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I remember when PTWs first got huge, they went through the same stigma P* is now, you know why?

Because when you put something like that in the hands of an experienced player that has a tenth of a function, tactics minded brain, you have put a katana in the hands of a samurai.

Lets sit here and be honest, c'mon now.  Lets all be honest, because some of us fall into both side of the chart here.

What do most airsofters do?  They lemming everything.  They see one person shooting one way... they all panic shoot that direction.  A group of people runs in one direction, and it's like, why by golly I better run mindlessly with them too.  It's pack mentality, then add in fear mentality when said group of people starts getting turned into a sea of red rags.  We've all been in that group.  We've all done it.  We're all guilty.  That's where 90% of your hatred for these high dollar, high performance systems comes from.  If the settings aren't screwed with, if you maintain your system, you wont shoot supersonic velocities.  I personally almost never run off SA, but, that's just me, so ROF capabilities mean absolutely nothing to me.  That's why I've loved PTWs since forever.  Because they will put one BB, after the other, in just about the same place as the last, over and over and over again, as fast as you can pull the trigger.  

The other side of that chart...

You were like me.  TLDR you handled a PTW for the first time and we're like DDDDAAAMMMNNN GGGGEEENNNNNAAAA.  If you are on the band wagon, I need not say another thing.  I remember when I had my first PTW, and people were like...

HARVEST.  IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?  I KNOW YOU LIVE IN YOUR PARENTS BASEMENT STILL AND YOU CAN AFFORD THIS, BUT IS IT WORTH IT.

And I was like 'ya dawg, heres the rifle and some magazines, go run it for a round'.  

And then like seven people in Indiana bought PTWs :D.

I will always remember the first game I used mine.  It was Redemption 2, and I made a 45 minute stand in a corner against three quarters of the enemy team (I'm not bullshitting, there are witnesses to this event, ask Joker), and when people with AEGs were MAYBE getting shots to land within 50 yards, I was knocking STACKS of dudes out at a time, like, groups of 5-7 in 2-3 seconds, at 80 yards.  We walked it off after we ended up getting killed (because they went a level above us, and held a guy upside down over a balcony and he shot us in the ass with a pistol :o) and it was 80 yards.  I should note that was with a black cylinder in a PTW.

Now for P*s, I too am a fan of the p* system.  Because you can do a lot of really cool things with that engine, an AEG just can never, ever do.  P*s get bad credit for the above reasons I mentioned.  P*s are no different than a sports car.  If you put a Mustang w/ a Rousch package in the hands of a first time driver, that hasn't driven on hazardous roads, through traffic, there is a decent chance they are going to be stupid and hurt someone with it.  Put the same thing in the hands of someone that knows what they're doing, and they are an intelligent, mature player, and you aren't going to have problems.

Showing disdain towards someone because they want a highly efficient engine, is nonsense.

I have a project myself I've been working on for a bit, because of issues with the body, and needing access to someone with a machine shop and more P* knowledge than I have access to.  It's an M82, and when it's done, it'll be cool as fuck, and probably shooting 500-600 FPS (I throw these arbitrary numbers out, because I don't know how things have changed with all the mods and stuff you can do to the engine since I've been out of the loop).  Obviously if I could get it to do the same thing at 300 fps, I'd take it, I'm just throwing numbers out.  I'm not out to hurt anyone, and I know that I probably couldn't engage from bellow 50-60 yards with it, and that's fine.  That's why we carry secondaries.

borat_zps3e719226.jpg

The reason I'm going to Polarstar it, is because an AEG engine would NEVER be able to perform and pull off what I want out of a P*.

There will always be people that want to do skirmishes, and that's fine.  Sometimes that kinda gameplay is fun.  These people do not 'kill' or 'harm' the sport in any way shape or form.

I myself enjoy the milsim aspect of it, and would like to do some more 'serious' milsim along the lines of like Berget, at some point.

Here is the part where I'm going to surprise the shit out of people, some I wont;

Airsoft to me, is a hunt.  That's why I play.  Black and white, I enjoy hunting other humans.  I enjoy the stalk, I enjoy waiting and watching people moving around thinking they are safe, and then blowing out of low cover and annihilating a group, and disappearing again.  The games where I have been the most content afterwards, I maybe only got two or three kills, because I was out stalking.  I do not like playing with groups of people.  I just don't.  One to three other players in addition to myself, is all I want around me, ever.

So honestly, milsim can be whatever it wants to be.  Big events almost always deteriorate to finding the biggest structure on a field, and both sides attempting to repeatedly take the structure from one another.  If that's what you're into, that's fine.

I'm out for the hunt, the bigger the hunt, the better, for me.  So whatevs.

A big chunk of airsoft for me people fail to mention, is the road trip, and chilling with nerds afterwards.

As long as there's gonna be road trips, good hunts, and hilarious alcohol induced conversations, imma keep playing.

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Airsoft is a hooby/sport for myself. I love the gear, guns and the players I run into that have done something cool to their kit or hardware. Out of the box thinkers bring some really cool stuff to the game.

 I love skirmish's as well as MilSiM, but totally do not like "It's a MILSIM EVENT" only to find out its a skirmish. Skirmish's with a milsim added to it are cool and plus that gives EO's a chance to try new types of missions and possibly props to see if the players enjoyed it. Kinda like a test and tune kind of thing. This can be very enjoyable as well as adding a new twist.

 

As far as evolution, I think that is inevitable no matter what it is.

Some hate on PolarStar's because it isn't old school or it reminds them of paintball.  But you cannot deny that the system is quite realiable compared to an AEG. Some will say its not realistic, really?  We shoot 6mm pellets at each other ;)

Same thing with the PTW's or any of the expensive hardware available for airsoft.

 

Call of Duty has brought a further evo to the game, some cool stuff some not so cool.

Cool stuff is the gear, guns and mission idea's

The not so cool stuff is the "last stand" kinda guy. Or you couldn't have possibly hit me, I am just to cool guy.

 

Airsoft is what the player wants it to be for them. Great thing about it is it brings in all kinds of folks from different aspects of life and puts them in command, follow, or low level leadership mode. You get a chance to push yourself and get the adrenaline flowing. Plus you get to enjoy the stress of simulated combat. Hunting the human animal is always a rush because you just do not know how it is going to react.

 

I know for myself playing Banshee Wrath scared me because I had never done a 32 hour event straight thru and had no clue if I could even do it! This actually helped evolve the game for me and push me further than I have ever been pushed in the game. It was tough but I made it thru. I guess that has been the most milsimish game that I have played to date and I actually enjoyed it a lot. Not a huge amount of players but quality on both sides making things quite tough. You had to pace yourself, it wasn't about kills or real estate. Once you dropped out you were done, you could not come back on the field. I was glad just to make the whole game, could have cared less if I was on the winning team or not.

 

EO's have dropped off and making it more difficult to find more "quality" games where the shooting part is very secondary to the game. Lost fields and EO's has pushed players more to the "Money Making" events which in my opinion sucks. I have had way more fun playing on private land than at most organized fields. But I keep trying to find that field/event that is run by an airsofter that is truly wanting better games for the mass's rather than making more money.

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Polar Stars bring something I like a lot: they work on more platforms than the usual AR. I am not completely convinced to go for a fusion engine for two reasons: I don´t know how longer I´ll stay in the US (and getting hpa recharges in Europe is a pain in the ass, add shipping to the US in case of failure...) and the terrible reality that I am clumsy, and an airline in my hands yell for Murphy´s Law to apply to me.

 

I see no problem with them bigger than the proverbial moron who uses a DMR as an assault rifle (it has happened to you too, I´m sure).

 

My guess for the future is that the PTW concept will slowly become a standard on AEG´s just like Marui started to be imitated back then.

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My guess for the future is that the PTW concept will slowly become a standard on AEG´s just like Marui started to be imitated back then.

I like this thought. The idea of the planetary gearbox becoming the norm is a pleasing idea.

 

I didn't want to chime in at first, but Pablo hit on something that I feel the same way on. The HPA line. I'm clumsy and I'd snap that thing so quick. And I'd hate to get snagged on anything. In the grand scheme of things, it's a minor thing, but still one of the main issues I have.

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Players being morons with polar stars or daytona´s are something super easy to fix: HPA tank locks. Simple as that.

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.

 

I didn't want to chime in at first, but Pablo hit on something that I feel the same way on. The HPA line. I'm clumsy and I'd snap that thing so quick. And I'd hate to get snagged on anything. In the grand scheme of things, it's a minor thing, but still one of the main issues I have.

I had this same worry, but there after carrying air tools in a crowded auto service shop there is something to stop that. Coiled lines even when you snap something the natural coil in the line will spin itself off the object. while I don't see or hear about many HPA users using a coiled line, they do exist and If I were to go the HPA route I would get a coiled line because I too, manage to find a way to snag everything.

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Issue with tank locks.... they can be undone. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

And coiled cables are wonderful, we had them in the machine and woodshops at my high school, kept things much tidier and less "I'm gonna knock everything off of everywhere by snagging that little broken corner of that one piece of material."

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Ultimately the issue is, if someone is a scrub, and they repeatedly do scrub shit, try to circumvent safety rules and shit, ban them and burn them out of the community.

probsolved_zps55512b2d.jpg

The P* engine doesn't make anyone a cheater, a shitbag, or any of the above.

Besides, lets say I'm running around with my PTW.  I pop some chitlen in the bicycle helmet.  They look around and they're like GOLLY GEE HE DIDNT' SEE ME NOT TAKE THAT HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE.
1389070692892_zpsfdee75bf.gif

 

Whats to stop me from popping ONE pin out of the rear of my AR style body, rocking the upper receiver forward, dropping a silver M165 cylinder in, switching to full auto with a 11.1V battery, and doing this to the chitlen?
1389071470955_zps3d3903be.gif

 

Because what you guys are failing to realize about P*s, is to change the FPS/Power delivered, you have to take the whole AEG body apart, lift the P* engine out, open it, put a new nozzle in, lube it, and reverse that process.

A PTW can go from 280 FPS to 600 as fast as you can drop a bolt out of a AR style weapon and replace it.

So think about that.

The problem is not the system, the problem is endemic to the end user.

Much like gun control, we need to be dealing with the dirt bags, not the systems used.
 

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The problem is not the system, the problem is endemic to the end user.

 

Much like gun control, we need to be dealing with the dirt bags, not the systems used.

 

Truth.

 

I have no problem with P*, DG, or PTWs. They are all great functioning systems with a lot of perks, unfortunately the dirtbags love them too for E-peen reasons. That is any hobby though, community self-regulation is the only way to weed out the bad behavior.

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I had this same worry, but there after carrying air tools in a crowded auto service shop there is something to stop that. Coiled lines even when you snap something the natural coil in the line will spin itself off the object. while I don't see or hear about many HPA users using a coiled line, they do exist and If I were to go the HPA route I would get a coiled line because I too, manage to find a way to snag everything.

As far as being clumsy goes, they have braided steel lines now, and they are super durable, and come in every color you can think of. They easily lay over your shoulder while being tucked into the molle pads on your vest and the hose is not really noticeable. Just ask nex or dishboy. And I'm doing the same set up for my P*.

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Really can;t say much about P*'s price considering the $800 sniper rifle sitting on my gun rack. However, I can say that many of the P* users that are active members here are quite responsible, and know how not to be a dirtbag. Issue with any controversial platform, it's only the asshats you hear about. There's plenty of guys who are massive dirtbags with any platform they use. P*s are getting the hate because they're coming more prominent. And with some of the videos I've been linked to from cqb arenas in Cali, I'm glad that our native P* users (the majority) are good guys, after seeing guys running around with pistol m4's, rocking high caps at 35+ RPS.

 

Which brings me to an evolution I've been noticing more and more, as I'm sure many of you have. High RPS builds. Lots of guys do this just to get a snappier trigger response, some guys do it just to have it. Frankly, I'd like to bump mine in the aug slightly for a better SA response. However, I've noticed plenty of builds reaching 400 FPS at 30 RPS, and the guys rock them full auto. Most rock them SA, but even on SA, as some who attended OP: Mole can attest to, some of the players out there were running M4 high RPS builds that could sling plastic on SA faster than a stock TM could on FA. To me, that seems a bit excessive.

 

Harv, as always, you present a good argument.

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I will get involved if you guys don't mind.

Why I do not like P* ?!!? Because they reached a complete and unreachable level of performance. Yes, it might be more reliable and more performant than any other gun but that creates a huge problems on the whole community.

 

Back in the days, regardless of the gun brand, the battlefield was pretty much even. Then came the PTW where you had something a bit better, giving a better trigger response BUT the range for the same FPS was pretty much on par with everything else, regardless of the bb used.

 

Then came the mosfet. Headache for a regular battery and gearbox, it quickly became more reliable to run higher ROF, which created problems in CQB environments...which the semi only rule fixed for the most part.

 

Now comes the Polarstar, For a 400fps gun, you can easily modify the gun in a way that most P* user can reach 350ft-400ft players without breaking a sweat. Right there, it kills any bolt actions rifle on the field. Say goodbye sniper roles. Then, even if you stay to semi only, the rate of fire can reach beyond what regular AEG in full auto can shoot. So P* get the range, get the ROF and get the reliability.

 

Why does it matter would you ask me?! Well, it is like a Gokart driver going against Formula 1 cars. Those are 2 differents vehicle that need to be handled separately.

The P* user is so beyond any reach that no regular players will have fun playing against. So yeh, P* users will come back from event #1 very satisfied but will most likely have no players to play against at event #2.

 

To compensate that problems, I have been experimenting a maximum FPS of 350fps for P* user. So far, they all enjoy it very much; Still in the 200ft range, more shots per tanks and still as reliable than before. So they still have an edge but not by that much, so all players can still have fun at somewhat the same level of play.

 

To foresee the future now. What will happen when players will be able to reach 300-400ft range ?!!? What kind of Energy will we get at 50ft? 25ft? 10ft? Players are saying P* hits like bricks at close range. SO, if the energy gets that much higher, what will happen with all the indoor or CQB fields? Will we need to force a MED of 25ft on every guns?! Why building CQB/MOUT if it is to impose minimum distances? Furthermore, if we allow P* at 400fps knowing full well tha joule is higher than any other guns and we compensate with higher MED, what stops us from allowing bolt actions at 800fps and 300ft MED ??

 

As I previously mentioned in the past, new technology is great but the players need to be able to handle it properly and unfortunately for the P*, they just have too much power in their hands as it is.

Next thing we know, we will all need to get better safety gear.

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Edited by strikers_blade

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Now comes the Polarstar, For a 400fps gun, you can easily modify the gun in a way that most P* user can reach 350ft-400ft players without breaking a sweat. Right there, it kills any bolt actions rifle on the field. Say goodbye sniper roles. Then, even if you stay to semi only, the rate of fire can reach beyond what regular AEG in full auto can shoot. So P* get the range, get the ROF and get the reliability.

 

It's escalation. Echo and I came out of Lightning Strike considering switching to HPA because we were getting outranged. Not looking at out ROF'ing the opponent, but more or trying to get on an even playing field. But on the other end, I'll also be leaving other players behind as a result. I've started experimenting with heavier rounds that would give me lower-end FPS but better stability and hopefully more range. I do like the consistency out of an HPA-based system though so I'll still keep my options open.

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before we get into ROF discussions about P*, remember there is such a thing as a DSG, a Dual Sector Gear. a properly setup DSG can reach ROF's of 70+ (believe me, ive seen a P90 that shot 75 rps) a P*, while being able to do that wont let it function correctly to do that. i HATE the idea the people are limiting P* just because they "get outranged" or any such nonsense. Ive played with and against P*s that functioned no better than any other AEG out there, shot about 175 feet, about 25-30 rps etc. why? because these people had NO IDEA HOW TO TUNE THEIR WEAPON. its like taking an out of the box AEG vs one that a very good tech has put lots and lots of time and money into, the one from the tech is going to shoot substantially better than the other. as far as the "P* outrange anything" argument, RabidGerbil paced off against Iceman from AOK, RG's KWA vs Icemans P*, and Iceman couldnt outrange the KWA. 

 

as far as semi auto ROF goes, a PTW matches it, and so does a GBBR. so do a lot of good neo motors matched with a high burst C rating lipo in an AEG.

 

i HATE that this topic has devolved into P* dislike (i wont say hate), and not because im a P* user (although there is some of that in there, cant be totally unbiased). I have dropped a very large sum of money into the system and then have people put these rediculous restrictions on them because they are "unfair to everyone else". i didnt buy it to be the same as everyone. you dont see countries going to war and an outside force going "oh sorry, you cant use this, itd be unfair to the other people"  war has always been about having the better weapon and gear. if you dont want to spend the money on it, cool. learn to be a better player and stalker and you can redrag the "super hero P* guy". 

Sorry for the rant, and sorry Blade as a good chunk of that was directed at you (nothing personal, love ya man :D ). While i can understand where they are coming from, i just cant emphasize with the people against P*s. 

anyway, ive not only seen an evolution in the game as a whole, but in my own play as well. ive gone from springers and LPEGs in a friends small property playing "shoot them till they give up" to an HPA powered death machine playing at 500 player Milsim games. if someone told me i would be playing at this level 7-8 years ago when i started i would have laughed at them. Airsoft was just something fun to do with a few friends.

 

I am very excited to see what the future holds, near future looks to be very bright for airsoft with other HPA systems coming (cheaper even, to get those who arent wanting to spend the money on a P*) and brushless motors just starting to poke their nose into the airsoft world or even all the PTW-esque clones coming out now.

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I've never been to a game where I've felt blatantly outranged with a tuned AEG, but I also admittedly don't attend "national level" high-dollar events. The vast majority of the engagements I have seen are less than 30 yards, rarely passed 60 yards, unless we're talking airfield at Springfield type areas. I've played entire games with my Hop-Up almost completely off and not noticed, dead serious. On the flip-side, almost every non-entry level gun out there has a higher ROF than my stock ratio 18:1 gears, and I'm fine with that. When we attend Blind Fury every year we likely have some of the lowest FPS, low ROF guns there, and we still manage to do very well.

 

I understand certain players want a slight mechanical advantage over the next guy, and theres nothing wrong with that to a point, but if you're constantly feeling like you're being out-performed on the field, it's likely not the gun. The space between your ears should always be your primary weapon, JMHO.

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I can smoke P* users and PTW users all day.  Do it on a regular basis.

Do it on a regular basis with a stock CYMA AK.

It's called...

Shoot.
Move.
Communicate.

This concept many play armyers, do not grasp.

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Limiting the capabilities of the weapon is wrong. IMO if you host a game and force a person to run their weapon at a lower FPS than the next guy, just because of performance, then you should probably stop hosting games. This is akin to controlling how a person can spend their money on items that they use and if perpetuated, the next thing we know, people will be requiring one brand of BB's on their field, or only allowing one brand of eye protection over another. 

 

As stated, the capabilities of the weapon mean little difference. I've run the exact setup that Francois is referring to at Irene 9 and was doubling the range of TFR while shooting semi-auto and I doubt there was a bolt gun there getting anywhere near the range I was, but this was an urban setting, well within visual range, and well within the capabilities of the DMR used today. 

 

When we choose to limit the use of current technology, we rob ourselves of the potential to push further than we have already. IMO, AEG manufacturers needed Polar Star so they would be forced to evolve. My AEG gets excellent range in comparison to most and the accuracy is top notch, but it doesn't compare to when I ran a P*, not even close. 

 

Polar Star is the current cutting edge and should be encouraged (with proper use), not discouraged. Limiting fps to level the playing field..... Wow. Will we next dial everyone down to 100ft of range so that Wal Mart guns are just as effective as PTW's? 

 

Now, while we're on the discussion, people have this ridiculous thought that by some unknown sorcery, Polar Stars can pump out insane Joules of energy while still at the same FPS using the same weight of bb's as an AEG and they're wrong and right at the same time. If tuned correctly, AEG's can experience an increase in kinetic energy in the same very way, by a volume of air continuing into the barrel after the BB has started its exit of the barrel. This can easily be regulated in the Polar Star by adjusting the poppet dwell down to a point where no air is wasted, thus making the system more efficient and actually more accurate. This "energy creep" is well documented and has been confirmed in AEG's as well, find the tests yourself on ASF if you don't believe me. So what does this all mean? Well it means that limiting the FPS of a Polar Star effectively limits its usefulness and part of the reason a person purchased it. I know it was the main reason I did, because my AEG's GB has now eclipsed more than 500k shots making it extremely reliable.

 

So what can we do to combat the known issues with Polar Stars being used to gain an actual unfair advantage (increasing joules/kinetic energy output)? Two things, a tournament lock which PTW's don't have and checking Poppet Dwell settings. Get a few very experienced P* users who know how to tune their gun and determine the average amount used in a particular barrel length and set that in your rules. If someone is outside of this, they either have to adjust it or don't field the weapon, it's as simple as that. Do on the spot chronos measuring in joules of the BB's they're fielding, not .20 or .25 because if I'm using a .40 then your tests don't matter. If they're outside of your maximum joule settings, then they fail the chrono. Now, if the advantage of heavier bb's rustles your jimmy at all, then let's take a look at paintball for a bit of comparison. It would take a gun running 1,000 FPS with a .2g bb to achieve 10 joules of kinetic energy and paintball guns run 14-20 joules. 

 

In conclusion, P*'s are demonized, unfairly so, due to ignorance on the part of how things work. Dishonest players will be dishonest, no matter their platform. Correct rules should be put in place and enforced for all, not just P* users and people should be allowed to use what they buy as long as those rules are followed. Period. Whether I carry water in a Camelbak or a soda bottle, as long as I'm following the rules for hydration. Whether I wear a 6" boot or a 9" boot, as long as I'm following the rule on footwear. Having one kid twist his ankle in a 6" boot doesn't justify requiring everyone to wear a 9" boot just for safety's sake. When we start regulating the specifics of everything a person uses, we seriously start to take the fun out of the individuality of the game. I don't want to wear an impression or look like someone else, I want to do my own thing while being an honorable and respectful player. When I've lost that ability, I will leave this game and never look back.

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