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R-Hop And Barrels


RabidGerbil

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I have had a major influx of questions concerning the R-hop in the last 2 weeks. So this has prompted this post.

 

First of all an R-hopped AEG will NOT hit 300' period. I have tried my darndest to achieve this. Not possible without cheating it with a "mortar" shot and then it is just a "I hope I hit my target"

 

Now as you move up in fps to say 450, you still are not going to hit 300' you will gain more distance but not the 300' that some youtube videos show.

 

What you can expect is better accuracy period. With the added accuracy you will move out to farther targets over a standard hopped gun. Distances vary depending on barrels, bb weights, and fps. Fine tuning is up to the end user. 

 

What you need to look for is a flattest trajectory with the best impact. (Opponents need to feel it or at least hear it) Can you "mortar" your shots, sure but accuracy goes way down.

 

Do I have to move up in bb weight, no but I highly recommend it. The lightest I use is .25's while the heaviest I have tried is .40's. I have settled on .30's overall for best performance of my own AEG's.

Expense plays big time in heavy weight bb's, you way the cost vs performance.

Also, match bb weight to your fps as well.

 

Barrel window length matters huge with this little gem. Learned this very recently and I am now expirementing with barrel window length = better performance. Verdict has not been reached just yet.

 

PDI barrels are good barrels but do not have a window long enough for the patch to be effective. I wish I had taken some pictures of this for comparison purposes. (Facepalm)

 

Some of the best barrels I have done with excellent results:

MadBull  (Rage's aeg was the first to be done with the MadBull and that damn gun out performs most of my own.)

JBU

Raptor

Stock Brass barrels (KWA specifically)

DB's Custom (Not the knock of one the original)

EDGI

KM Head

 

As far as hop-up units, I have found some are easier to do than others but I have not found one that cannot be done. Support weapons that have the metal round adjusting hop-up I have not come up with a good solution yet on how to make it adjustable but I am currently working on an idea for this problem.

The other nice thing about the patch, it can take a CQB weapon and turn it into a woods ball gun without changing the fps. Your range will still increase even at 350fps.

 

Now this voodoo magic of the R-Hop patch has baffeled me and I was not sold on it originally until I installed some in my own hardware. Yes, it does work and I feel it is highly worth getting it done.

I will let those that have it done speak for the mod itself.

 

The G&G green bucking that I have used for along time is what I recommend at the time of an install. Do you have to absolutely use this bucking? No, but it is what I have used and have had excellent results with it.

 

 

1) All in all what I have really learned is that performance is directly related to your hop-up/barrel group.

2) Air coming to the barrel group is also a factor.  Consistancy gives higher performance no matter what is propelling the bb. GB or FE they both produce air no matter your poison there. The more you can keep your fps tight, the better your toy will perform.

( I realize most gun-techs know the above equation, this more for the novice gun tech)

 

I will monitor this for further questions. I do not want to debate if it works or not, been there done that.

 

Hopefully this answers some questions.

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Thanks for posting this, RG.

 

This has given me a bit more insight into R-Hops.  It may be something I may consider down the road.  I'll just have to keep testing my own to see.

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Calling on Rogue. Calling on Rogue.

 

 

Why thread crap? this was a informational post. If you have nothing positive to post then don't. 

There was no need for your remark, Rabidgerbil Clearly posted this was not a debate.

I also believe Rogue is a little more grown up then to start a flame war over a topic that these two have have already debated on. 

 

Rabidgerbil thank you for putting up more information about this.

I actually have a question, what is the longest effective shooting you've done and what was the gun set up? 

also Approx how much does it cost to have this done?

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Approx. cost is $75 for parts and labor, maybe a little more depending on where you get your parts.

 

RG, you forgot prometheus barrels!

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Why thread crap? this was a informational post. If you have nothing positive to post then don't. 

There was no need for your remark, Rabidgerbil Clearly posted this was not a debate.

I also believe Rogue is a little more grown up then to start a flame war over a topic that these two have have already debated on. 

 

Rabidgerbil thank you for putting up more information about this.

I actually have a question, what is the longest effective shooting you've done and what was the gun set up? 

also Approx how much does it cost to have this done?

I believe you took my post the wrong way..

 

I know Rogue has a lot of good, useful knowledge on the R-hop as well. I figured he'd have some insight on the topic as well; wasn't trying to start a "flame war" like you portray. I'm not here to abuse the forums. The more information the better, right?

I have had a major influx of questions concerning the R-hop in the last 2 weeks. So this has prompted this post.

 

PDI barrels are good barrels but do not have a window long enough for the patch to be effective. I wish I had taken some pictures of this for comparison purposes. (Facepalm)

 

Next time man! Thanks for the information!

 

 

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I believe you took my post the wrong way..

 

I know Rogue has a lot of good, useful knowledge on the R-hop as well. I figured he'd have some insight on the topic as well; wasn't trying to start a "flame war" like you portray. I'm not here to abuse the forums. The more information the better, right

 

 

My apologies for assuming then. But rogue only debates that is doesn't work. so it came off like that. 

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The longest effective range has been and still is Rage's Echo1 with a MadBull 6.03 barrel. Shooting .28's around 230' on a flat trajectory. AEG chrono's spot on at 400fps w/.20's and is very consistent.

Mine are pretty close to his as well. 

Interesting enough, you can keep dialing up your hop-up to get further out. The R-Hop push's the hop-up effect farther out than a stock hop-up. I personally do not like the curve you get from a hop-up. This is why I am always pushing for the flattest trajectory of the pellet. Flattest line possible means more dead-rags for you to collect.

It is a range from 10-40' depending on the end user.  

 

Again, please remember there are a number of variables that go into this. Barrel choices, fps, bb weight etc. Look at this as narrowing the bb flight. (Able to more consistently hit smaller targets.)

 

Out of all the AEG's, Polarstars that I have done I have had only 1 gun show no gain in distance. One of my own cheapy guns. It was also an early install. Still learning at that point.

 

From all the PolarStars that have been set-up that I have seen almost ALL have some form of the R-hop/Flat-hop/G-Hop in them. I keep hearing that a Polar Star will out shoot an AEG, I have not found that to be the case unless the PolarStar user has their fps cranked up.

Yes, I have compared them to my own weapons by actually stepping it off and shooting each other. Every instant they do not out shoot a gun that is R-Hopped. Now, start cranking up their pressures and they WILL out shoot you ;)

 

Look at this mod as another fine tuning tool. Look at the hop-ups, barrels, buckings etc in the after-market arena.

 

Orga barrel's that seem to be coming popular I have installed 1 in a PolarStar and it just doesn't seem to give the accuracy that is claimed. BB flights were all over the place, very inconsistent. We switched him back to his EDGI and performance was there.

Now, I do have to say this VFC Voltar has been plagued with not being able to shoot from day one. (Stock internals converted to PolarStar)

 

Thank you Acer on the Prommy barrels. Always look at the barrel windows to make sure it is not extremely small. Prommies can be R-Hopped but I believe their windows are a bit shorter than what you would normally see.

 

Hopefully this answered the question.

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You should experiment with my PTW! :)

 

This would require some serious re-engineering of the barrel/hop-up. :P

 

Thanks for the info RG. Glad to see you have complied all your research/experience into one thread finally!

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I can testify to the effectiveness of R-hop. RG (or Die?) did my JBU 650mm 6.01 and lonex hop up unit. There was a very noticeable improvements across the board in all my tests with both AEG and FE internals in my M82A1, but the most prominent was accuracy. After some fine tuning (best results in the .28-.32 weight range), I've got it exactly where I want it!  ;)

 

I am interested in getting my VFC Scar-L R-hopped. I was wondering if that's possible, since it uses a two-piece plastic hop up unit?

 

I wasn't sure of any issues or concerns that might bring up...

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Ares, your VFC Scar uses the exact same hopup unit my 2 Scar-H's use.

 

RG ill take my pdi and gets some pics of it tonight to show off the tiny window

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Would this be similar to the Orga flat hop for the PTW?

 

Similar maybe but from the picture on RWA, not similar enough. The R-hop requires a window length change and the PTW as is from the factor wouldn't easily support this mod (or at least not any conceivable way I can see but S_Z is the resident machinist).

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Similar maybe but from the picture on RWA, not similar enough. The R-hop requires a window length change and the PTW as is from the factor wouldn't easily support this mod (or at least not any conceivable way I can see but S_Z is the resident machinist).

Makes sense. Thanks :)

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Ok, Turner brings in the "Machinist" and that is good ;)  I have one of those as well that does fantastic work. These guys are into perfection!

But...you have to be very careful as to how far you cut that window. Your Hop-up dictates this in a huge way. Now, if you are just looking to widen the window and square cut it, than you are good. DO NOT GO TO FAR!!! Keep it cut to what a standard brass barrel is from the factory. Square cut means going straight down from the already cut window adding nothing more.

 

StarBlade thank you. Very important that folks understand what I mean and pictures mean more than words.

Edited by RabidGerbil
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My apologies for assuming then. But rogue only debates that is doesn't work. so it came off like that.

 

I am flattered my name came up so quickly. Hehehehe...

 

There is nothing for me to refute in this. RG posted his candid first-hand experience. To claim any other reaults would be to call RG a liar, and I know he is not.

 

I have never claimed that the RHop "doesn't work" rather it is overinflated for the results and price. When these first came out there was massive hype and huge technical discrepancies. RG explains what is needed to get the benefit of a longer hop patch. Takes time money, time, and technical expertise to wring out the performance.

 

Fortunately, tech has caught up with the RHop. There now are some buckinga that replicate the benefits while being non-techie installable.

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Pictures as promised, sorry they are terrible, my camera took a shit and im left with my Galaxy S4. PDI 6.01 509 compared to a stock Tokyo Marui barrel out of a G3-SG1

 

qzcPADf.jpg

 

m2vfzr8.jpg

 

yuPQHOT.jpg

Edited by starblade54
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Thank you StarBlade.

 

@PTW owners,

Can you post up a picture of one of the stock barrels being used in them? Are the windows really that small? I have done some Systema barrels that turned out to be very consistent.

And the hop-up unit? Are they that much different from the TM Hop-ups?

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Thank you StarBlade.

 

@PTW owners,

Can you post up a picture of one of the stock barrels being used in them? Are the windows really that small? I have done some Systema barrels that turned out to be very consistent.

And the hop-up unit? Are they that much different from the TM Hop-ups?

 

Not my image but is similar.

 

hopparts.jpg

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The R-hop requires a window length change and the PTW as is from the factor wouldn't easily support this mod (or at least not any conceivable way I can see but S_Z is the resident machinist Tool & Diemaker).

;)

 

PTW barrels don't have a window, per se. The begining of the barrels are notched out to below the centerline of bore (leaving it 75% open space), the hop adjuster/roller packing fits over the open area where a traditional window is, and butts up against the chamber packing base. Dimensionally the "length" of the window, fore to aft, is about the same as traditional AEG cut barrel, minus the two 15 degree lead-ins of course. The reason it works so well is just the superior airseal from what I understand, engineered very well.

 

This is all from memory, I haven't owned a PTW in years, so I can't give you a 100% positive answer or detailed measurements.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Could one of our PTW users pop a picture up of what SZ is talking about. I have never seen one nor have I R-Hopped one.

Thank you in advance.

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Duh.......should have remember that! (Facepalm)

Thanks Rob ;)

Yeah, not sure how the r-hop would work on that......I have heard them doing the PTW's though.

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No worries sir. Not saying it is impossible just not sure how feasible it would be. The PTW, when not screwed with, is very solid as is anyways. :D

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