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Indiana Indoor Airsoft 3-16-13


BigAltes

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had a great turn out of A-I players, and like always, everybody had a good time, LiLAltes took some video for everybody, hope you enjoy.

 

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You should name that video "LilAltes and Dishboys day of Fun!!! It's basically Tommy yelling at me and shooting me all day!!!!

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I had a great time. First time running my new Systema and it worked very well. The staff was very nice. My brother Eagle and I showed up a bit late (practicing good ModSquad etiquette) and the first game we played allowed full auto which was...a bit much, but still fun! All of the seasoned players agreed to use semi so only a few people were on full auto. Not too many hit calling issues and everyone overall had a great attitude and what looked like to be lots of fun!

 

Pros:

Had a great time (as well as everyone else had a good time)

Good on hit calling

Never ran into any major saftey issues

lots of trigger time

good price for an entry fee

got good footage

 

Cons:

the Initial full auto game, but it really wasnt a big deal since only a few players used full auto

 

 

Overall great day of fun with a lot of great people!

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Came out on the 17th and had a great time rockin' out with N.M.E. Great place and fantastic staff, hopefully it only gets better.

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Now that I have had a chance to go play there, I would like to share my thoughts. This is a blunt review of the field and people running it.

 

Short Read:

"Has potential, but needs to desperately sort some things out. Until then, this is not somewhere that is worth the money paid to play. I will only come back if I need to get some BB wars in and there are no other games of substance in Indiana."

 

Long Read:

Initial Thoughts:

-Its not that I did not enjoy myself playing there. I really did enjoy playing, but everything that was not itself playing was disorganized, frustrating, etc.

-I applaud the owner for starting a second location (since they are from Pennsylvania), but they have failed to cultivate the community. They seem to be of the mindset, "If we build it, they will come" and while that is true for a first-time experience since curiosity gets the best of me, the ownership fails to interact with players, build a following (both online and in-person), etc.

-The cons listed below all point to a singular failure: the management. The field is not managed. Owned, yes. Set up nicely, yes. But no management of daily affairs. It is mis-managed to the point that if there were an accident of lawsuit, they would almost certainly be found at-fault.

 

On the Price:

I have no problems paying $20 to play for a game. I understand that fields cost money to set up and run, electricity is expensive, etc, but I do not see the value in the money I paid. Cool field? Maybe, but when you pay to play at a business, I expect certain things like dedicated staff, etc. Want to go to an indoor facility that gets it right, see Airsoft of Kalamazoo in Michigan. They have a winning formula up there and it costs less than $20.

 

 

Pros:

-The location is a good one. Within 2 hours of Fort Wayne (closer than most games to me) and easily accessible in Indianapolis.

-Field set up is largely balanced, using simple yet rugged construction of 2x4's and plywood. It makes for an easiliy re-arrangeable field weekend to weekend if they so choose.

-Currently small, but appropriate for CQB games. When the full compliment of players was out there, it started to seem a bit crowded.

-With a relatively small player population, I did not see many issues with hit calling. Those who wore full kit did not feel hits at times when in heated combat, but those were worked through.

-Players agreed to semi-only after a few older players agreed it was a good thing.

-I enjoyed the "infected" game type where if you are killed, you switch sides. For a field that usually had very short games, there were longer, more dynamic, etc.

 

Cons:

-In my opinion, a negligent, if not purposeful disregard for safety:

  • Chrono was not run with field BBs.
  • Weapons were not tagged after chrono.
  • Staff did not check weapons leaving the field if mags were clear, causing numerous instances of me calling "mags out" in the safety area.
  • Staff did not wear eye protection in the field and had to be forcefully reminded. They claimed that they were not subject to their rules and I reminded them that insurance did not cover accidents due to negligence.
  • Bang kills are not allowed, period. You must tag a person with hands or shoot once, leading to many unnecessary shots and close-range arguments. I understand bang kills can cause an argument, but I would rather see an argument than chipped teeth, etc.
  • FPS limits are high, almost too high when considering that full-auto is allowed unless otherwise agreed up on by players to use semi-only.

-Game types were often unusual, with players often being confused on rules. Games focused on mission types often had people with only single lives. This caused unskilled players to be eliminated early and obviously upset them.

-I could not often tell who staff was. Often Spectre or FNPope were in hi-vis jackets, but were not staff, and the one "staff" member, was playing. How can you enforce rules, resolve questions, etc when you are playing on the field? Not to mention that when staff did not play, they rarely wore hi-vis vests or other identifying items.

-There were no way to identify teams. Disposable armbands were no where to be found.

-Hand shots did not count as a kill. In a CQB field, WTF!?! I actually did not know it was a rule until later in the day, but ignored it. Most of the time people killed me, it was in the hands.

 

I strongly recommend that the field make the following changes:

  1. Create and enforce FPS rules that focus on safety. 350 and below, full auto allowed. 350-400, semi-only.
  2. Actually chrono weapons and tag them. Check tags every once and awhile.
  3. Instead of playing, have a dedicated staff member walking around. Most insurance plans require this!
  4. Cultivate the local airsoft community. Get out and meet the players, answer questions online, etc.
  5. Potentially look at limiting BB weights. In CQB conditions, especially with 350+ weapons, heavy BBs retain energy much longer. Moving to .25s and below may help limit the potential for injury. There are no long-range shots to take that require heavier BBs.
  6. Have a way to identify teams. Velcro armbands are found easily and cheaply at local sports shops. Invest in them.
  7. Hand shots must count.

On a side note, It was good to see all the AI players there!

-Glavier & Ms. Glavier

-FNPope

-Big & Lil'Altes

-Spectre

-Eagle

-Beastmug

-Dishboy

-Nex

Edited by -Rogue-
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I attended both days (16th and 17th). I had a blast both days. It was great to get back out there after a year and put some faces to the names with folks I've been harassing on here.

 

Pros:

-A new place to play that is geared towards airsoft, not paint ball.

-CQB facility with a great amount of potential

-A willingness by the people running the games to be open to suggestions (i.e. semi-auto only during games involving AEG's).

-A nice mix of people newer to the sport and people who have been playing for years

 

Cons:

-Very lax chronoing

-Small (for the amount of people playing, though this is going to change over the next few months)

-A lack of on field rule enforcement.

 

The one thing I do enjoy about this place is the fact that it is run for airsoft players by airsoft players. These folks have two other facilities (Ohio, Pennsylvania) that are established, and are willing to work on this one to make it what the players want to be.

 

I have spent some time talking to the owners and to one of the players (Fox). I expressed my concerns on the very lax chrono procedure, making a few suggestions (chrono line, tagging weapons) and they've seemed very open to any suggestions that we can offer.

 

I will be returning here to play whenever I have the opportunity.

 

On a side note, I'm happy to say (those who were there on Saturday will understand) that today, I was finally able to get a very beautiful kill with the Deuce (I had to ask Sarah if I could borrow it today since she wasn't feeling up to playing today). :D

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So, after playing at this place for 2 days in a row, I have to say, I do enjoy a game or two there.

 

Pros:

Location, location, LOCATION! It's no more than 20 minutes from my doorstep so it's perfect if I have an airsoft itch that needs scratching and there are no games that day.

The guys Chris, Ted and Fox are really receptive to suggestions and advice and willing to cater to the style of play that we here in Indiana like (for the most part)

Pricing - I would usually pay more than 20 bucks prepping for a game then another 10 or so for the game itself, so the 20 bucks (or 17 this weekend) I spend is nothing.

 

Cons:

Chronoing is my biggest issue. I may be making a big deal out of this, but there was a guy with a Systema MP5 firing about 390fps on .25s and nothing was said to him. He was like "It's about 400fps on 20s". I do not concur. Way too high for CQB in my opinion, but it was allowed. I have to WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that semi auto for anyone about 350 should be strictly enforced. I'm personally hitting 330fps on .25s, 360-365fps on .2s, but I have no problem going semi-auto.

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I attended today (the 17th) for a few hours, just to check it out. I have to agree with Rogue. No chrono set-up, full auto games. The younger / newer players agreed to semi auto games though after it was brought up by other players. ORIA members all kept their guns on semi, even in the full auto games, thanks guys. Pope did a good job getting games together.

 

I met quite a few newer players who were not registered on AI, they said they'd check it out. Had one guy tell me he was told to stay away from the site by other players, that we "push people around". I talked them into giving it a shot, hopefully they will sign up.

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I showed up today as a surprise visit as i wasnt sure i would actually make it or not. i have to say, i enjoyed it. needs some work but its a good start.

 

now since i showed up in the last hour, i cant give you a good feel for what all was going on before hand.

 

Games:

 

Games were typical deathmatch but we did play a game of Infection, that i actually enjoyed. It was well explained and we all had a great time.

 

Chrono:

 

Cant say much on that, saw a guy come back out when i first got there to chrono a new gun, wasnt staff run or anything they just handed him the chrono (this would be the biggest change to be made)

 

Sportsmanship:

 

Everyone i played against and with were good sports about calling hits (course with half of everyone left being AI what do you expect? haha)

 

Overall:

 

Overall i had a good time, needs a bit more work layout-wise and i cant wait to see Phase 2. Chrono issue will have to be fixed but seems everyone has already mentioned something about that.

 

My verdict is i will be back. the semi-auto was enforced and made this a lot of fun (esp since i was only using handguns). As said before, the owners were very open to discussion and feedback, seems that in time, this place could be a great field addition.

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Well, I went both days.

 

My personal observations:

 

Pros:

1) Decent location. The area looks rough but once you get in there it's nice an open, even at the parking lot. Edward's Drive-In is just outside!

2) Potential for expansion. Should the other section open up, there'll be pretty much a city block's worth of fighting. Built up properly you'd have a mini Mogadishu.

3) Variety of games to mix things up. They're still experimenting but the scenarios are pretty interesting and give a good workout.

4) Sportsmanship: Generally was pretty good. The 9-year old kids there had some pretty good discipline, and were kinda hard to shoot at!

5) They have a shop! The selection was small, but what they had was decent. Mind you, they are not catering to more serious airsoft enthusiasts like us, but what they had was reasonably priced. They hope to expand that depending on demand.

 

Cons:

1) Safety is an issue*. Rogue did a pretty good job on Saturday reminding people to be safe (mags out, etc). They just needed one reminder though.

2) Cost-wise, it's a bit expensive. I'd probably be able to afford doing it once a month at most. I wonder if we could get them to do a bulk discount of sorts if we had an AI day

3) Did not like full-auto. We decided to take the high road and go semi, but in the future I'd sit out the FA stuff.

4) Definitely need to chrono.

 

* I talked to Ted and Chris, the owners a bit. and they they appreciated the input that people were sending them. They were very surprised at how the Indiana players were more conservative when it comes to safety and velocity. Bear in mind that these guys started out in Pennsylvania, and from the sounds of the crowd they were used to I'd say PA players play like a bunch of rednecks. I'd say if we're willing to give them a chance, they'd be willing to work with us to make things safer. Maybe our airsoft culture will rub off on them and they'd bring it to other states? It would be something to be proud of.

 

I would encourage them to require full face protection, ie a mask of some sort, preferably mesh. Rogue and I somehow managed to shoot each other in the mesh at the same time and I felt the pieces of the BB come through my mask and hit my lip. If I were not wearing the mask I'd have a busted lip at the very least. Speaking of mesh, getting hit in the face has definitely reaffirmed my belief of "no" on mesh eye protection and "yes" on mil-spec clear goggles.

 

Overall, I did enjoy myself a lot, and certainly enjoyed meeting more of the AI gang. I managed to get my first pistol kill and I was amazed that I pulled it off. I got to figure out what worked and what didn't, and got a good workout. Since there were moving targets, I got to figure out what adjustments I needed with my shooting style, stock positions, figure out how much reach I could get with my gun, get used to the slower velocities of plastic BBs vs real bullets, and all that stuff. Glav, Sarah was a real trooper! It's too bad she couldn't join you today.

Edited by targetpractice
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I strongly recommend that the field make the following changes:

  1. Create and enforce FPS rules that focus on safety. 350 and below, full auto allowed. 350-400, semi-only.
  2. Actually chrono weapons and tag them. Check tags every once and awhile.
  3. Instead of playing, have a dedicated staff member walking around. Most insurance plans require this!
  4. Cultivate the local airsoft community. Get out and meet the players, answer questions online, etc.
  5. Potentially look at limiting BB weights. In CQB conditions, especially with 350+ weapons, heavy BBs retain energy much longer. Moving to .25s and below may help limit the potential for injury. There are no long-range shots to take that require heavier BBs.
  6. Have a way to identify teams. Velcro armbands are found easily and cheaply at local sports shops. Invest in them.
  7. Hand shots must count.

 

 

Rouge all of these things have been passed up to the owners and some of them will be changing very shortly. I will be making a more in depth post about this here tonight but here is the short version for now.

 

After talking with Ted and Chris about a few things I offered my help to them and the biggest way that I will be helping them out is by acting as a liaison between our community and their business. Basically I'm going to help them get things going in a way that airsofters in Indiana are more accustomed to. Rouge your list hits every point that I've heard people are concerned with so I am going to Copy and paste it into my new topic.

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Pope, while I appreciate you taking the time to step up and work to communicate between the owners and AI, my firm perspective is that the owners should be the ones communicating with us directly.

 

At the very least, please tell me you are being compensated for your time and efforts?

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Overall I had a great day, though I would like to mirror some safety concerns and general business observations:

-Chrono was very lax, and I know of at least one person who realized they never even chrono'd at the end of the day

-Weapons were not tagged post chrono

-Standardized BBs for chrono were not used, just a simple "Youre got .2's in that mag right?"

-Refs should be strictly observers, they should rarely ever take an active role in combat ops and should focus strictly on officiating

-I was never tagged after I had filled out my waiver. As a matter of fact, I had to go back in and pay after I realized they never asked me for any money. I would suggest keeping the loading dock door closed and make everyone file through the pro shop. Had I not stepped forward and paid on my own will, I would have gotten a free day of airsoft.

-Semi auto only. Full auto was a bit much, especially with such high FPS limits.

 

My video for the day:

[media=]

[/media]

 

Beastmug and I the ModSquad wall scribble "Two chainz but we got us a few on"

 

555074_10152660689175576_1645572740_n_zps5d3fda02.jpeg

Edited by Eagle
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Pope, while I appreciate you taking the time to step up and work to communicate between the owners and AI, my firm perspective is that the owners should be the ones communicating with us directly.

 

At the very least, please tell me you are being compensated for your time and efforts?

 

I could not agree with you more, but the between working their everyday jobs and running not one but two different fields in two different states things will flow a bit more smoothly through the use of a liaison. This is something that will be done just in the early stages of their business, in the future once things are set up and running at a much more smoothly the owners will be more involved in our community. There has been an agreement worked out to compensate me for my time, but to be honest just making sure that this place gets on the right track and continues to grow is my main goal.

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Rogue is mad cause' he's the official airsoft consultant in Indiana. How dare those hooligans start an airsoft business in Indiana without consultation, especially since they've never run a business before.

 

 

 

Warning issued. -S_Z

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I can appreciate your perspective, but this is not the appropriate venue to discuss it. You may PM me at anytime if you feel that I overstep the bounds of a active player in this community. I will always share my phone number if you would like a learned debate.

 

Your post has been reported to the staff.

Edited by -Rogue-
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Great video.. Looks badass!

I'm gonna have to make it out this coming weekend.

It's legit, man. Fair warning though, wear some padding or something that will absorb hits. They fling'em hot and fast and don't care how they're sent.

 

We aim to change that...just a little ;)

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Fair warning though, wear some padding or something that will absorb hits.

 

Yes. Seriously, if you don't like wearing lower masks, this is the place to start liking them. Some of the guys came out looking like they had ringworm in the face.

 

I forgot to mention that padded bike shorts or a cup would be a good investment for this place.

 

Not that it's happened to me, but we did have to call off one game after a poor guy got hit in a .... shall we say, vital, spot.

Edited by targetpractice
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Yea.. I plan on wearing a lower mask. After getting hit with a polarstar in the face at Irene, I will wear one at every event most likely. Lol

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This thread will stay on topic, or more warnings will be issued.

If you can't remain civil, keep it to yourself.

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Nice, the PTW sounds ill.

 

I fired it.....it's like an orgasm with a trigger.

 

Those were some good times.

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