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Custom Retro-Arms, Zenitco, E&l Ak


Hanback

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Hey everyone, and holy cow its been a while! I've kind of fell off the face of the planet for a while now as I push through to finish my engineering degree and get a job. Im hoping to be back north soon though at some point.

 

However, I've got a treat for everyone today!

 

Long story short, in all my years of teching and building, I never really made it into the AK side of things for a multitude of reasons. Then I met a guy down here in Florida who has become a great friend of mine who I got into airsoft. One day while shooting our Russian guns out at his range, he asked me about the AK platform, and I literally said I don't know. Up till that point, aside from the occasional CYMA or low end AK that came through either the work shop or my personal shop, I never really handled them let alone built them. Well, he went out and got one. Over the past three years skirmishing with him and playing with it a bit, I started to like it. If anyone knows of the Rushing Russians crew which is a countrywide organization, I've spent a good deal of time with a number of its members and kind of got bitten by the AK bug in the process. So a year ago I managed to get my hands on a broken AK74mn body, spare externals, and just so happened to have a spare KWA V3 shell laying around. I did a complete build from the ground up, but then hit financial humps and offloaded it. Then this summer I bought my real Argentinian FAL and figured id build an airsoft version of it because why not. Well two weeks ago after finally getting out to a big milsim game again and getting my feet wet again (its been a while), I realized that the FAL is not meant for my play style, and I got the chance to handle an E&L AK105 that had TWI Zenitco aftermarket parts in it, and I fell in love.

 

So, I liquidated the FAL and most of my inventory lightning fast (more due to moving soon then anything) and did my research. A few days later I had ordered and E&L AK107 body kit from asia and tracked down a Retro Arms V3 gearbox shell, and the fun has ensued. So for those of you who dont know, E&L is a mashup of two companies, Landarms who is highly regarded for their quality japanese internals, and Emine which makes real AK parts. The result it an airsoft AK with a 100% stamped steel body on actual AK presses with great stock internals. The externals are arguably hands down better than LCT, which has been top dog forever. I have read reviews, done my research, etc, but there is just no way to properly explain and express this AK body. It is BLUED steel, has every detail from a real AK, held together with rivets, is the most solid thing I have ever held, and dear lord it is beautiful. Without further adu:

 

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The entire receiver is riveted together, not held with screws. That says a lot in itself. The grip is actual Bakelite, not cheap plastic. The barrel is one solid steel piece, demilled via the hold through it so it is clear it is airsoft. There are two set screws that hold the lower to the rear sight block and barrel, but I didn't even tighten mine down because I had to pound it together gently with a hammer, so friction fit is perfectly fine. The stock and charging handle are brand new, and require breaking in. That I have never experienced before. You actually have to sit and fondle this thing at night while watching tv to break in that hinge so that the stock actually folds and so that you don't have to slap the charging handle back with a brick like a Mosin. The complete breakdown of this gun part by part takes a whopping minute, half of which is spend removing the selector and screw from the grip. The body itself breaks down like a real deal and as fast as the real deal too. Now the best part; how many of you have purchased Mosin's, SKS's, AK's, ect that you then have to scrub liberally to get the cosmoline and oil and gunk off of? Well, this thing comes in the EXACT SAME MANNER! Albeit not nearly as caked on as your typical Mosin out of the crate that swims in cosmoline.

 

As I said above, this was a body kit, so I had absolutely nothing internal wise with it. I tracked down an actual E&L hop-up and installed a spare Prommy 6.03 I had laying around. Now for those of you who don't know about the Retro Arms gearbox shells, just imagine the equivalent of the body pictured above in all its glory, but now in the form of a gearbox shell. It is completely CNC'd aluminum with a quick change spring system rivaled by nothing I have ever seen. I have worked with the MT-Haynes gearbox shells before, and they are super nice, but this one takes the cake because there is no modification required for installation of parts like the Haynes. I built the gearbox with some stupidly nice parts I had laying around, but I have no clue on brand. I know some were pro-win and some were Prommy, but other than that im not sure. The gears are Prommy helical torque ups paired with modify ceremic bearings though. She's got my custom wire harness rigged up to regular contacts for the time being as I tune her. She will eventually get one of my homemade fets in her, but in due time. I also only have a low end motor in her at the moment for the same reason. As I slowly get her tuned to perfection, those will be swapped out in favor much better components. The goal is literal instant trigger response for semi with a healthy full auto capability if necessary.

 

As far as this build goes, I am convinced that I have created one the most robust guns probably in existence. Despite some of the stupid tests at the begining, I invite you to watch this video about stress testing the E&L. Pay no mind to the internals, just watch for the externals.

 

The best part is, this gun is currently only at stage one, hence the reason I am posting in this topic section. TWI Zenitco parts have been ordered and are currently inbound, as are a multitude of other parts and accessories for this girl. I will continually update this thread as I go. Seriously though, this is hands down the best airsoft body that I have ever handled. In the last decade of airsofting, teching, and building, I have never seen anything like it nor even near its caliber. I highly suggest it to any of you who may be interested in it. Feel free to ask any questions too, I am more than happy to answer any inquiries anyone may have. It seems that these guns aren't around all the much outside of Florida and the Rushing Russians, and they really are not that expensive.

 

Also for your reference for anyone wondering where I got things:

E&L Body Kit : http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AdvanceSearchResult?search=true&productcode=e%26l&mode=simple&keyword_search=e%26l&productname=e%26l&brandId=

Retro Arms GB : https://www.retroarms.com/

TWI Parts : http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/twi.html

 

 

Standby for more in the coming days/weeks as I obtain more and more parts! I seriously haven't been this excited about a build in a very long time.

 

*Edit

I also want to apologize. It appears that in the process of uploading the pictures to photobucket and then posting them here that the quality has gone down drastically. It makes me sad because it is hard to see some of the beauty of the body now in the photos. Please understand that these photos do not do this body justice. It looks 10x better in person.

Edited by hanback
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The pangs of jealousy are beginning to touch my wallet in funny places.. must resist the urge to open it and get one of these.

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I am wanting to buy myself a new AK this year and one of these is at the top of that list.

 

I can't wait to see what it looks like and how it performs when you are "done" with it.

 

~Joker

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I am wanting to buy myself a new AK this year and one of these is at the top of that list.

 

I can't wait to see what it looks like and how it performs when you are "done" with it.

 

~Joker

 When I open her up again here in the coming days Ill document all the internals I've got in her. From preliminary testing at the moment, she purrs, and very quietly with this gearbox. Ill probably be ordering some more retro-arms parts for her as well. As far as being "done," give me like two weeks!

 

I am also thinking potentially a Kobra for her too as far as optic. And as a sneak peek, shes getting the Zenitco B-10 rail pared with the B-33 railed, folding dust cover. Ill get pictures of her beside her older sister, the AK105 decked out in Zenitco parts that inspired me, once she's done.

 

As far as mags, I've done my research, and ill have to do some tests, but what do you use for mags Joker? Also, I know you are the resident AK lover, and although I may be an AK noob myself, I do believe that you will appreciate the E&L AK's. 

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Personally owning an E&L, they run through whatever you hand them. I've been in mud, rain, snow, whatever it is and they'll run perfectly. 

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Every E&L I've handled has been solid, the internals are pretty nice as well. I'd recommend them to anyone looking for an AK pattern AEG.

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I almost always use TM standard mags. They only hold 70 rounds but they are metal, solid, and always feed very well. Not to mention they work in just about every AK. I also on occasion use Echo 1 "Dogs of War" mid cap mags. I bought a bunch of them years ago before a big MilSim event thinking I would shoot a lot (and of course I didn't really lol). The spring is already wearing out in them though. I used just about every brand of AK mag and keep coming back to TM standard mags.

 

~Joker

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, so an update.

 

She has come a good way since I initially started the thread three weeks ago. Preliminary field testing has gone well and shown me weak points that need addressed. So, some quick background that I didn’t mention before.

I purchased my body kit from Redwolf, and when it arrived I found that it wasn’t quite “optimal” as the very front of the receiver was warped slightly. Refer to the image below for representation of this. The truition is connected to the barrel with a single pin, and I looked into removing it to help with the warping issue, but after pounding the snot out of it with a hammer, I gave up as it didn’t budge. So basically when the barrel and truition were installed into the receiver, due to the slight warpage, the truition and barrel are cocked about three to five degrees to the left. It still assembles fine, and doesn’t affect functionality in any way though. All it affects is installation of aftermarket parts. So like seemingly every gun I build personally for myself, nothing is easy. It just makes the gun worth that much more to me though.

 

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So I tried to at least slightly realign the receiver. Ha! Yeah no. Didn’t work. Started with a vise and some clamps and ended up just wrapping the receiver in a rag, placing it on the cement, and beating the piss out of it with a hammer. Needless to say, if I in any way doubted the claims of the video in the initial post, I definitely no longer do. Even after whomping this thing with a hammer (and not gently I might add) there was no change at all. So I said forget it, and focused on modification of the other externals to ensure fitment of everything.

 

So, internally, she’s pretty. She has a generic brand full cylinder paired to a matrix CNC, double O-ring sealed cylinder head. She’s got a nice G&P polycarb, six metal tooth, half rack piston paired to a Guarder metal, ball bearing piston head and nice Kimball Midwest #14 O-ring. A Prometheus tappet plate is installed, and a Prometheus O-ring sealed air nozzle will soon be as well. Everything is driven by a set of midrange Prometheus helical torque up gears perfectly shimmed that are disturbingly quiet. Currently there is just normal generic trigger and contacts, but all wired with one of my custom wire harnesses, consisting of 18 gauge, 100% copper stranded automotive wire for minimum internal resistance. All is contained within a Retro-Arms CNC aluminum gearbox shell. The Retro-Arms CNC motor cage is still undergoing necessary modifications to properly fit the gearbox and is expected to be done shortly. The gearbox is currently powered by a good AMP motor which yields very good trigger response with the gears and an acceptable rate of fire right around 26ish. She currently sits at a consistent 385fps on an already broken in m120 spring of unknown brand. There is currently a pro-win hop-up on hold and soon to be in transit to me to replace the simple E&L hop-up, and she powers everything through a Prometheus 6.03 stainless steel barrel. R-hopping is expected to be done here in a few weeks as well.

 

So, now, the beautiful part, externals. The company Zenitco in Russian does for AK’s what Magpul does for AR’s, except in a fashion that outshines Magpul in my personal opinion. I got my hands on a B-10 rail to pair with a B-33 dust cover which are both produced for airsoft with full trades through the company TWI and requiring import into the US. The B-10 rail fit initially with the use of a hammer, but the B-33 required serious modification. For starters, the attachment points were too narrow to fit around the truition. The only solution was to gently widen the gap, so I grabbed my angle grinder, threw on a cutoff wheel, and went to town slowly removing material. *Note: didn’t use a grinding wheel as it removes too much too quickly and too easily rounds out, preventing you from keeping a hard edge. Once I got it to fit around the truition, it then was too thick to fit between the truition and the rail, and this is partially due in fact to the warpage of the receiver. After roughly three hours’ worth of grinding, filing, and sanding, everything began to fit. I did not grind until ease off fitment though. I still wanted a very tight fit so the gun could retain its solidity. So, once I could begin to slip the attachment points between the receiver and the truition, I stopped grinding, and utilized a hammer and rag to pound everything into place.

 

Additional modification was necessary to the dust cover and rear of the gearbox as well. The dust cover release was a tight fit through the corresponding hole in the rear of the dust cover, and subsequently required filing to allow a good fit. The front of the dust cover then required slight filing to allow the mock bolt to be pulled back and released without sticking. Lastly, the very rear of the gearbox required ever so slight grinding to allow the dust cover to fully seat down where it should. I installed a Retro-Arms AK selector because its purdy, and then a Zenitco replica stubby grip made by Asura Dynamics.

So, without further ado, I give you the finished exterior product.

 

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The EO-tech pictured is just a place holder until I get an actual optic for her. I am currently looking into a rail mount Kobra. The beauty of the build is that I can run optics while still retaining use of the folding stock which is typically rendered useless upon optic use due to the side mount setup necessary. I am still looking into the possibility of the Zenitco PT-1 stock as well as top rail to fit over the gas tube and mate with the B-10 rail. We’ll see in the coming weeks if I pursue either of those options. But until then, this is her.

 

Oh, and something else I learned about E&L; they understand that airsofters are not fond of the orange tip on the guns, but are necessary for shipping. SO to remedy the situation, instead of permanently bonding a POS orange flash hider to the gun and then include a really nice black one, they bond the really nice one to the barrel, but barely attach the paint. So removing the orange paint is as simple as wrapping the thing in electric tape, pressing it down firmly. Then as you pull it off, it will hold all the orange paint, leaving a pristine surface that needs no filing, sanding, or repainting to remove. Shown below:

 

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Edited by hanback
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For those of you who may wonder, the PT-1 stock I am referring to is this:

 

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And the Upper rail I am referring to is this:

 

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Both I think have to potential to look beautiful on the rifle, however I am trying to not entirely overdo it. My mind is not yet made up. I am leaning toward it though.

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Here are slightly better pictures of what I described above. First, the modification to the Retro-Arms Gearbox to allow the dust cover to fully seat. There is, or I should say was, a hard corner that interfered with the back angle of the dust cover. Removing that hard corner by simply grinding it smooth very gently is all it took for proper fit.

 

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As far the the front attachment of the dust cover, here is what I was explaining. It originally wouldn't even fit around the truition, and once it had been modified to do so, it required further modification to then fit in between the truition and rail. The right side wasn't all that bad, required maybe an additional 1/64 - 1/32 of an inch. The left side required substantially more though. However, keep in mind that my truition was positioned slightly left to begin with due to the slightly warped receiver. It required more of 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch to be removed for proper fit. For the instal onto the 105 by my good friend and tech down here, no large modifications were necessary. This girl wanted to play hard ball though.

 

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To anyone interesting in possibly obtaining these externals for an AK, dont let the possible need for modification dissuade you. I wish I could convey over the internet just how beautifully nice these rails are and how well they feel. They are hands down the greatest rails I have handled. Hell they're nicer than a lot of real steel stuff, and these are just re-pros of the original Zenitco stuff. If you are wanting to install stuff like this, let me know and I can walk you through the process and tell you how to do it. And if you personally don't want to do the modification, I am happy to do it for you. Again, pictures really just don't do these parts justice.

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Personal opinion, but I still prefer the LCTs. I messed around a bit with Comrade Devil's E&L and wasnt any more impressed with it then the LCT Steel kit i had a Daytona Gun in.

Can't wait to see it in person brother, your builds are always top notch.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok, I figured I give a final update. Here she is folks.

 

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She has got some of the best trigger response I have built in a gun and shoots lasers. There is still a tweak or two to be made internally, but externally, she is complete. i settled on the micro RMR sight as the rail mount kobras are just huge and bulky and the RMR gives it a nice low profile appearance and saves on weight. I've been running her through a lot of field tests, and am happy to report that she performs flawlessly and exceeds expectations. The B33 dust cover even allows the fitment of larger sized 11.1v's, pictured below. and it fits in loosely, so there's even more battery room under there.

 

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I discovered that MAG brand mags do not like to seat firmly and wobble a lot. They also had slight misfeed issues. CYMA mags were ok, but I finally just dropped the coin and imported a box of the G&P 5.45 black mags. They hold 150 true to their name, feed flawlessly, and seat really well in the E&L bodies. Also a discovery was made throughout this process. If you want to run a PT-1 stock on these, then you can't run the Retro Arms gearbox shell as the shell has too much material on the back to allow integration of the PT-1 to the receiver. Just a warning to anyone else possibly wanting to slav out an AK with Zenitco parts to make it super FSB.

 

I am actually so impressed with this whole gun body, that I may have gotten my hands on another E&L for dirt cheap, and begun the process of rebuilding a 74U from the ground up :huh:  She's shown below. Not entirely certain what is on the short list for her yet, but it shall still be spectacular.

 

But as promised in an earlier post, more AK porn. The E&L on the bottom I just built from the ground up today for a close friend of mine and RR member. The 74U at the top is the other one I just picked up, and then next to my girl is the 105 that started this all that has gone complete FSB. Credit to my good friend Dean for that build. Enjoy!

 

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Edited by hanback
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  • 1 month later...

So in an above post from weeks ago I mentioned that I had gotten my hands on an E&L 74U. Its basically done now. Nothing super special on the inside as far as gears and shell go, but she has a good G&P polycarb piston to all metal piston head and double O-ring sealed cylinder head. A good prommy air nozzle and tappet are in her, with just generic contacts as I continue to tune her. Typically stock motors are awful and perform atrociously, but theres something about these E&L motors. They obviously don't perform like a high end CA, AMP, etc, but once you convert all the wiring to good copper high flow with deans connectors, they pull pretty quickly and with really decent torque. Its like the full performance of the motor is restricted in the stock guns, and but swapping out some stuff and tuning you can unlock the full potential. There aren't NEO magnets in them nor low gauge armatures either, so it kind of baffles me. Just an interesting observation I have found.

 

This was not a new gun, having been a used gun that came out of an RR unit in California as a "non-working" gun. Other than being full of sand and everything loose, the previous owner took wonderful care of the body, from which I have re-polished and corrected slight oxidation. The beauty of being in Florida is then not three weeks after arriving, the body was coated in rust. So, this little 74U gets a bath in gun oil now after every use to preserve the exterior. Only slight modification was necessary to the mag catch to allow the G&P's to seat and lock properly.

 

She runs an extended 6.03 into the foam filled PBS which dampens all muzzle noise to virtually nothing. In the coming weeks she will have a 1/4" soft sorbo thrown in to damped gearbox noise as well as a retro-arms gearbox with modify bearings to properly quiet the gearbox. Ill probably top her off with a systemma magnum motor that I am currently rebuilding the armature of. She's not lightweight anymore, but no more heavier than her sister.

 

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She's pretty fun to run around with while wearing a smersh and screaming Russian insults and curses at people. Having a handful of people doing it with you, priceless.

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